Epic-W Workflow questions

[Dennis S.]

Hey guys,

we just purchased the epic-w a couple of days ago and are about to pick it up tomorrow in cologne.
I did some research on my own and read the official documentation but i still got some answers on my mind and i would certainly appreciate if you can shed some light onto them.

1.) RedRaw + ProRes simultaneously
Thats a big feature of the Epic-W and one we would definitely like to use but apparently there are some caveats to consider,, like:
- When you wanna record to RedRaw and ProRes you re bot able to use the PreRecord Feature any more (works only in Continous Record and Motion/Still Captre)
Q: Is that something that is likely to change with a future firmware release and can you elaborate what is technically the reason with pre record and RedRaw + ProRes?

- Recording to ProRes 4K is only available when recording to ProRes only and you use ProRes 422
Q: Does that basically mean 4K proxies are not possible while at the same time doing lets say 6K RedRaw?
Does that mean on the other hand i can always get 2K proxies regardless of what recording resolution i choose, for example
If i record to 6K or 8K RedRaw and ProRes simultaneously do i get 6K or 8K R3Ds and 2K ProRes proxies?
Basically i always get 2K proxies from the cam because as soon as i wanna have 4K proxies i have to decide between RedRaw or ProRes, right?

- Recording to R3D + Apple ProRes is not supported whenb the format is 4K FF
Q: Ok, this means from 4K FF upwards i also can`t record to R3D and ProRes at the same time right?

The kind of workflow we had in mind with this camera was obviously using the proxies as a way to review and judge the quality of our shots "in the field" maybe even editing some stuff in resolve, creating EDLs of that and export properly edited RAWs based on those EDLs. Our current workflow was always trying to review the RedRaws directly in the field while setting the playback resolution according to the horsepower of our notebook but even with recent macbooks we still struggle a lot playing back those RedRaws i imagine it will be even worse when we`re talking 7/8K.

Let me know what you think and thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

1. I didn't know that was true. Seems like something that could be potentially fixed in future firmware updates though, but I wouldn't hold your breath for it to happen for awhile. Red still has to finish rolling out IPP2 and Monstro before they can look towards major software upgrades.

2. I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. That's one of the differentiating factors between the Epic-W and the CF Weapon. If you want the extra Prores power, you need the more powerful brain. Though this may get changed through firmware at some point.

3. See above.

 

[Martin Facci]

I really do not see where someone would need 4K Proxys. They are proxys, they are ment to be small (in terms of resolution and bitrate) and do a nice playback everywhere.
So i won't consider it a problem really...

Not sure about the limitations with RAW + ProRes about 4K but with 2K you usually have to take down 1 or 2 points in the compression of the RAW. Depending on your resolution/frame rate.
For example, if i don't remember it wrong, with EPIC-W and 512 Mini mags in 8K FF 25FPs it goes from 4:1 to 5:1

The one thing that i hate about the proxys in the EPIC-W is that if you don't work in HD (16:9) the proxys are actually 2K (2048x1080) so if you work in a normal 16:9 timeline, you have to scale and reposition every clip to fit.

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

The one thing that i hate about the proxys in the EPIC-W is that if you don't work in HD (16:9) the proxys are actually 2K (2048x1080) so if you work in a normal 16:9 timeline, you have to scale and reposition every clip to fit.

Are you sure about this? When I was on the last build of v6 I tested a few Anamorphic clips and other frame sizes and if I remember correctly, my 2k files were all sort of custom sizes. I'll have to reopen that project to confirm though.

 

[Martin Facci]

Are you sure about this? When I was on the last build of v6 I tested a few Anamorphic clips and other frame sizes and if I remember correctly, my 2k files were all sort of custom sizes. I'll have to reopen that project to confirm though.

In normal mode yes, im sure. But i do not test it working with anamorphic desqueezed resolutions. Maybe it's differente there!
I mean workig with either FF or 2:1. I don't test it with WS

Wich makes total sense because to get to 16:9 you have to do a crop to the source. I don't blame them, it's just annoying

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

In normal mode yes, im sure. But i do not test it working with anamorphic desqueezed resolutions. Maybe it's differente there!
I mean workig with either FF or 2:1. I don't test it with WS

Wich makes total sense because to get to 16:9 you have to do a crop to the source. I don't blame them, it's just annoying

Interesting! I'll have to do some testing today.

 

[Homer Dulu]

- Recording to ProRes 4K is only available when recording to ProRes only and you use ProRes 422
Q: Does that basically mean 4K proxies are not possible while at the same time doing lets say 6K RedRaw?
Does that mean on the other hand i can always get 2K proxies regardless of what recording resolution i choose, for example
If i record to 6K or 8K RedRaw and ProRes simultaneously do i get 6K or 8K R3Ds and 2K ProRes proxies?
Basically i always get 2K proxies from the cam because as soon as i wanna have 4K proxies i have to decide between RedRaw or ProRes, right?

No, you can actually record R3D and 4K ProRes at the same time. I do it all the time - 8K 10:1 compression ratio for the R3D and 4K 422 HQ for ProRes gives me a nice balance between compression and quality.

Basically the 4K ProRes is a scaled version of what your current R3D resolution. For example, if you have it set at 8K R3D, the ProRes file will be a 4K scaled-down version of the 8K field-of-view. Same with 4K, 6K, etc.