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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic W Helium vs Epic W Gemini Purchase

im contemplating this buy right now as well. not sure if I should go helium or gemini. From the stuff ive seen, right out of camera the Gemini has more pleasing colors. is this true or am I imagining it?
 
Mike Kushner said:
I have a Gemini and I find it can be really noisy as compared to an older, Epic X that I own. I don't have a Helium...but if you don't need a low light setting and are not planning to shoot mostly high speed in 4K or smaller, then I think Helium or Dragon would be a better fit for you. Too bad Helium won't shoot 120 frames with the full sensor and downsample in camera to 4K. That is what kept me from buying Helium. I don't want to cut my lenses angle of view in half just to shoot high speed...but I think you would like the picture better than Gemini if you want it clean with less noise.
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I hear this a lot and I'm always curious what they are shooting high speed that needs the shallower dof of the larger sensor area? For instance Epic-W (max 30FPS at 8K) has the exact same fame rates as the Helium (which does max 60FPS at 8K) at 6K and less and since the 8K Helium sensor is something like 20% bigger than S35 at 8K (sensor is the same in both cameras) it is only a bit smaller than S35 in 6K. Seems to me most things that one would shoot at higher frame rates would benefit for slightly more depth of field to help with focusing - and again the difference is fairly small.

Seems like 120FPS would be more for nature where you normally need the greater dof, or something like explosions and such in a feature where you aren't likely to be trying to achieve shallow DOF.

So what are the situations where 120FPS rates are needed with significantly shallower depth of field than can be achieved with a helium sensor?
 
As a current Raven owner I'm soon going upgrade to either Gemini or Helium but I can't decide.

My most used lenses will be Sigma Cine 18-35 mm and Altas Orion Anamorphic 40mm

The more I research the harder it gets .... so ... anyone else had a tought time choosing direction here ... and which way did you go ... and why ?
 
I've had both. There's lots to love about both and I think you should decide based on what you need from a camera, is it the additional resolution and sharpness of helium or the low light and slightly better DR of Gemini? Re lenses, Atlas looks great on Gemini with extra sensor height, but the sigma vignettes on both sensors at max res, not as big a deal on helium where you can crop in slightly to eliminate the vignette and still have a lot of resolution to play with.
 
I’ve rented both on several occasions and i would recommend the Gemini. One of the most underrated characteristics is its sensor size. It’s between full frame and super 35. Dual ISO is also lovely (of course).
 
Aaron Green said:
I’ve rented both on several occasions and i would recommend the Gemini. One of the most underrated characteristics is its sensor size. It’s between full frame and super 35. Dual ISO is also lovely (of course).
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Helium is also between full frame and super 35/. 29.90 mm x 15.77 mm (Diag: 33.80 mm) 1.89 ratio

Gemini. 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diagonal: 35.61 mm). 1.70 ratio

Helium aspect (1.89 ratio vs 1.70 ratio) probably more useful for non-anamorphic shooting?

World is moving rapidly toward 8K - just sayin'.
 
Just purchased Gemini and I am extremely happy. There are times I wish I had more resolution to punch and to give my landscapes/wides just a bit more pop but in terms of skin-tones, lowlight performance, and just overall cleanliness (feel) of the Gemini sensor is superb. I absolutely love the skin-tones of this camera and think it is one of the cleaner images red has produced to date. If you have a lot of lighting, grip/team, and very powerful computer for editting go helium for the increased resolution. If you are part of a smaller team, more run-and-gun, and shooting in not as many "set-up" scenarios go gemini. Both are awesome cameras that can be made out to look almost identical. Buy the camera for YOUR NEEDS not for everyone else's.
 
Thanks great info ... I have a powerful machine - > https://www.instagram.com/p/BWckFNNgAMv/ your input makes it even harder on what direction to go :)


Andrew Reese said:
Just purchased Gemini and I am extremely happy. There are times I wish I had more resolution to punch and to give my landscapes/wides just a bit more pop but in terms of skin-tones, lowlight performance, and just overall cleanliness (feel) of the Gemini sensor is superb. I absolutely love the skin-tones of this camera and think it is one of the cleaner images red has produced to date. If you have a lot of lighting, grip/team, and very powerful computer for editting go helium for the increased resolution. If you are part of a smaller team, more run-and-gun, and shooting in not as many "set-up" scenarios go gemini. Both are awesome cameras that can be made out to look almost identical. Buy the camera for YOUR NEEDS not for everyone else's.
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For me, Gemini was a no brainer. It is more versatile in every way, 4 perf sensor height, low light, higher frame rates at bigger sensor size, less overheating due to lower data rates. Unless you REALLY want to crop in on your sensor to utilize the reframing options of Helium, there is no reason to get it over the Gemini. I still use Arri all the time and crop in on some shots and they have much lower resolution. They are also still the go to digital camera of the best DPs in the world. And yes, I own a red and really like the Gemini. Just because there are 8k screens out there doesn't mean that everything has to be shot 8K.
 
Gemini is the closest Red gets to an Alexa in terms of photosite size and a 4:3 sensor.
 
Epic W vs Gemini? I would Say Gemini. DSMC2 Helium vs Gemini? Different tools for different jobs.

The Helium does 8K60fps. This is 32megapixels per frame. If your work doesn't require going beyond the common broadcast, web and cinema spec, maybe having 8K resolution is not important. However, there is much work now for 8K specific content related to, specially 2020. With the Tokyo Olympics, we are going to see a big, big wave of 8K content demand and equipment coming up. Is this relevant for cinema or international broadcast for the short term? Maybe not. But with 8K truly coming, every single show or material shot now in 8K will have value in the middle term. Just like my 2012 5K Epic MX footage has value and looks current now.

Food for thought...
 
I went gemini, and im very happy with it. I also have an Alexa Mini. Gemini looks just as good, I do side by sides and the colors on this camera are just different than helium and dragon. They are coming out with new cameras in 2 years. Buy your gemini and when they come out with the new camera which will probably have the best of both worlds, upgrade. atleast that's my plan. The success of the gemini is definitely going to make RED rethink whats important on their next camera. The BRAND NEW Alexa only shoots 4.5k. I don't think the world cares about resolution as much as some of you guys think they do.
 
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