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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic VS. F65 Side by Side Test

Adam: I ll try, but as mentioned before, we probably wont be able to shoot until 5:3pm ish....which means here in Queensland there wont be much sun left :/

Michael: for sure, what I already noticed....the red SSD card reader is about the size of 3 stacked CD cases....the card reader of the F65 is the size of a small car and comes in its own pelican case with a massive power supply.
 
Michael Hardwick said:
Please include a thorough assessment of data management in terms of time required to offload and archive, and ease of use for each system.

I recently had an Epic and an F65 side by side, shooting with identical glass.... besides the obvious form factor issues - the data management side of things for the F65 was kind of a big PITA.

Corrupted frames of several shots from the F65 which rendered entire clips unusable and had to be downloaded a second sometimes a third time... Poor DIT was pulling his hair out.

Maybe just a bad experience?

No question the Sony makes pretty pictures, the mechanical shutter and the internal ND's are great....but it has to be a balanced equation or it doesn't make a lot of sense. I hear

that many shows that use F65 just pull the cards and send them to the lab for offloading/archiving.
Click to expand...

It has been my experience that most raw digital workflows for ACs without a talented DIT are ALWAYS a PITA...for the AC.

It has also been my experience that Epics go down, destroy clips, add artifacts, overheat or blast noise through the soundstage at will, yet we still choose to shoot with it when appropriate for the job at hand.

F65? Never had a problem with any of that, but there are PLENTY of times we choose not to use it too.......

IMPO, your exerience, is your experience..and mine is mine.

The DP and Production will pick the camera they want to use and as an AC, you're just gonna have to suck it up and accept the workflow...
....or choose not to take the job.
 
Our side by side tests we did a while back showed the Sony winning in most areas... Global shutter, Sharpeness (which was equalled by a smidge of unsharp mask) Dynamic range I'd say by maybe a 1/2 to 1 stop...
The Sony was , is a great camera.

Unfortunately the things that made me not use it as my primary camera... Number 1... was dragging that giant bloody thing around slowing my shoot days down was a big one.
The price of it.. I could seriously have 3 EPICs on set working at the same time.... in place of one F65.
Travelling around the world with it would be a pain.. you cannot sneak it into carry on. Let alone 3 bodies and accessories.
Guerrilla shooting ... absolutely not...
Using it by yourself with a light weight tripod. ..Nope.

Regardless of the Sony's sensor superiority.. It lost me when in came to every day use.
With the DRAGON (ond day) being released... I think will take a few of these superiority's away from Sony.
And the Rolling shutter...? Really never ever worried me...

I think Dom, Do a real work test. Go out and see what you can shoot in a day, from dawn to dusk. Just by yourself or with a friend... and then do the same with the RED...
Edit it all up and show us what was achieved.

Have fun mate,
 
Mark Toia said:
I think Dom, Do a real work test. Go out and see what you can shoot in a day, from dawn to dusk. Just by yourself or with a friend... and then do the same with the RED...
Edit it all up and show us what was achieved.

Have fun mate,
Click to expand...

Ha...you overestimate my abilities... just one friend ?? I almost got a Hernia just from lifting that camera on the test bench.... you're not wrong about the giant body and weight issue.....this thing has to be the most unergonomical HD camera on the market at the moment....the battery we are using for this baby alone weighs 18kgs !!!!!!
 
Dominik Muench said:
Michael: for sure, what I already noticed....the red SSD card reader is about the size of 3 stacked CD cases....the card reader of the F65 is the size of a small car and comes in its own pelican case with a massive power supply.
Click to expand...

That would only be true if you're using the SRPC4. That unit is actually a self contained Linux based computer. You can also use the SRD1, which is a direct attached (eSATA or USB3) drive that is quite small, actually not a whole lot larger than the Red mag reader.
 
M Most said:
That would only be true if you're using the SRPC4. That unit is actually a self contained Linux based computer. You can also use the SRD1, which is a direct attached (eSATA or USB3) drive that is quite small, actually not a whole lot larger than the Red mag reader.
Click to expand...

yep it would be the SRPC4 then, the card reader that comes with the camera is literally the size of a shoebox. what advantage is the Linux system ? does it also act as a transcoder ?
 
Dominik Muench said:
yep it would be the SRPC4 then, the card reader that comes with the camera is literally the size of a shoebox. what advantage is the Linux system ? does it also act as a transcoder ?
Click to expand...

You don't actually touch the Linux system, you interact with the box via a web browser. But the fact that it's a computer lets you mount a bare drive and transfer material to it without the need to tie up another computer host, as well as allowing use of a 10gig Ethernet connection to a computer (if it's equipped with the 10 gig interface). It also generates checksums and lets you play back material from the card. Basically, Sony chose to make a box that's a bit more flexible than a simple "dumb" reader, which is what the SRD1 is. Whether anyone actually needed such a thing is, of course, subject to debate.
 
M Most said:
You don't actually touch the Linux system, you interact with the box via a web browser. But the fact that it's a computer lets you mount a bare drive and transfer material to it without the need to tie up another computer host, as well as allowing use of a 10gig Ethernet connection to a computer (if it's equipped with the 10 gig interface). It also generates checksums and lets you play back material from the card. Basically, Sony chose to make a box that's a bit more flexible than a simple "dumb" reader, which is what the SRD1 is. Whether anyone actually needed such a thing is, of course, subject to debate.
Click to expand...

interesting, keen to check that out, probably makes a data wranglers life a little easier.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
It has been my experience that most raw digital workflows for ACs without a talented DIT are ALWAYS a PITA...for the AC.

It has also been my experience that Epics go down, destroy clips, add artifacts, overheat or blast noise through the soundstage at will, yet we still choose to shoot with it when appropriate for the job at hand.

F65? Never had a problem with any of that, but there are PLENTY of times we choose not to use it too.......

IMPO, your exerience, is your experience..and mine is mine.

The DP and Production will pick the camera they want to use and as an AC, you're just gonna have to suck it up and accept the workflow...
....or choose not to take the job.
Click to expand...


As an AC it doesn't effect me at all. A lens is a lens, and the camera is still just box to record an image. To me they are more similar than not. As a cameraman, you are right in saying you choose the right camera for the job, I completely agree - that was the purpose of the test to see which system worked best for our project. There are many things about the F65 I think are terrific (image for one) - and yes the Epic has its share of quirks, as do some of the people on this site.

But in this particular case the F65 data offloading/archiving hit some serious snags. Granted I didn't know the DIT personally so I couldn't vouch for his experience level with the F65 footage. Just reporting what I saw.

But the "suck it up or don't take the job comment" is a fairly condescending way to communicate with someone you've never met who has something legitimate to contribute to the discussion.
 
Michael Hardwick said:
As an AC it doesn't effect me at all. A lens is a lens, and the camera is still just box to record an image. To me they are more similar than not. As a cameraman, you are right in saying you choose the right camera for the job, I completely agree - that was the purpose of the test to see which system worked best for our project. There are many things about the F65 I think are terrific (image for one) - and yes the Epic has its share of quirks, as do some of the people on this site.

But in this particular case the F65 data offloading/archiving hit some serious snags. Granted I didn't know the DIT personally so I couldn't vouch for his experience level with the F65 footage. Just reporting what I saw.

But the "suck it up or don't take the job comment" is a fairly condescending way to communicate with someone you've never met who has something legitimate to contribute to the discussion.
Click to expand...

It has been my experience that most raw digital workflows for ACs without a talented DIT are ALWAYS a PITA...for the AC.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
It has been my experience that most raw digital workflows for ACs without a talented DIT are ALWAYS a PITA...for the AC.
Click to expand...

The bigger PITA is "talented" DIT's who deliver status quo service, overcharge for kit, and condescend to others in the camera department.
 
Adrian Jebef said:
When the F65 first hit the scene I used it side-by-side an EPIC on a Jack White video. Raw to ProRes to extreme color-correction to After Effects to music. Shot on Leica C's.


http://vimeo.com/45840287

So, can you pick out which is what?
Click to expand...


trippy, our test wont be quite as exiting :/
 
Dominik Muench said:
Adam: I ll try, but as mentioned before, we probably wont be able to shoot until 5:3pm ish....which means here in Queensland there wont be much sun left :/

Michael: for sure, what I already noticed....the red SSD card reader is about the size of 3 stacked CD cases....the card reader of the F65 is the size of a small car and comes in its own pelican case with a massive power supply.
Click to expand...

There is newer card reader for F65 with USB 3.0. It's much smaller than the older card reader

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/Bro...isites/NAB2012/product-Confidential-srd1.html
 
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