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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC to output PRO RES

Gunleik Groven said:
RED has allways had a stubborn "educative" side to its philosophy, and the prores module doesn't go too well with that....
I have really enjoyed that part of RED, though.
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Very well put - I agree. At some point in the future it will pay off. However, they are no longer the only players in this game. At some point they have to acknowledge the requirements, misguided or otherwise of some consumers, or forego the opportunity to be allowed to set the agenda in a few years time.
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Why do you think the Alexa, Sony, etc is so much more $ ? its the Baked In Video Processing of the Prores module... FACT: onboard processing is the most expensive part of any "Video" Camera.

Can any of you clamoring for this module make back its likely high cost?
Will you settle for a lesser module that is cheaper but only does a 1/8th Debayer? If yes, then how will you pitch that module against Alexa's?
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I'm sorry Tim, but that's just not relevant here. Offboard solutions converting HD-SDI to ProRes cost less than $2000. And Epic already does the full debayer to 1080p, right?
 
Ben Holmes said:
Very well put - I agree. At some point in the future it will pay off. However, they are no longer the only players in this game. At some point they have to acknowledge the requirements, misguided or otherwise of some consumers, or forego the opportunity to be allowed to set the agenda in a few years time.
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Not just red but of any other camera playing in a similar space.
I'd like to see prores on F35, F3, Genesis, and others also.

With the size and weight of Alexa, I question if it was worth putting it in the camera instead of just using a kipro mini.
 
Carsten Fenstermacher said:
Not just red but of any other camera playing in a similar space.
I'd like to see prores on F35, F3, Genesis, and others also.

With the size and weight of Alexa, I question if it was worth putting it in the camera instead of just using a kipro mini.
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Can you record 12-bit 444 to a KiPro Mini?

According to specs it is only 422 (HQ)

The Alexa 4444 prores files look quite nice...
... and they are slightly larger than RedRAW @ 36, though
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Can you record 12-bit 444 to a KiPro Mini?

According to specs it is only 422 (HQ)

The Alexa 4444 prores files look quite nice...
... and they are slightly larger than RedRAW @ 36, though
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4444 isn't very usable as an editorial codec though so you'd want to transcode down to HQ. You might as well be shooting redcode and getting 4k out of it then.
 
For logC/RedlogFilm I do see many of the same issues as with redcode, exept you lose RAW, BUT they are standard Cineon curves... Just upload a LUT to your preview signalchain and off you go.

Prores 4444 is much less of a processor hog than redRAW and works nice on my really not that new laptops...
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
why do you think 444 isnt usable as editinh codec?
seriously?
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when you get into more than one stream 4444 starts to choke. Not always but often enough. And you have to start dealing with way more data on editorial machines/networks. Since the whole point is direct to edit, having something that is too heavy for editing isn't great.
 
Carsten Fenstermacher said:
when you get into more than one stream 4444 starts to choke. Not always but often enough. And you have to start dealing with way more data on editorial machines/networks. Since the whole point is direct to edit, having something that is too heavy for editing isn't great.
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LOL, agreed...

This thread is about two things, not one.

1.
Want instant prores or similar offlines (Like me... I think...)

2.
Want an alternative "Alexa-like" nonRAW option. (Like the OP)
I would have though prores 4444/RedlogFilm was a minimum requirement, but maybe I am wrong on this, too...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
LOL, agreed...

This thread is about two things, not one.

1.
Want instant prores or similar offlines (Like me... I think...)

2.
Want an alternative "Alexa-like" nonRAW option. (Like the OP)
I would have though prores 4444/RedlogFilm was a minimum requirement, but maybe I am wrong on this, too...
Click to expand...


#2 is like getting a half baked redcode to me. If you're going through the expense of having to transcode, I might as well shoot redcode.

#1 I want but I don't need it on the camera. That means I need more crap on the camera and more things to go wrong. Make me something that turns redcode into prores whatever that a pa could run.
 
Carsten Fenstermacher said:
#2 is like getting a half baked redcode to me. If you're going through the expense of having to transcode, I might as well shoot redcode.
Click to expand...

I know it's not as flexible as RAW, but REDlogFilm ProRes444 is a lot less processor intensive for editing than REDcode, and you do NOT need to transcode. You only need to view through a LUT, which may be hardware or software.

I have created a LUT plug-in for FCP which applies a LogC to video LUT to ALEXA footage. I am also developing one which does REDlogFilm to REDgamma.

Carsten Fenstermacher said:
#1 I want but I don't need it on the camera. That means I need more crap on the camera and more things to go wrong. Make me something that turns redcode into prores whatever that a pa could run.
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STORM with a rocket?
 
I agree 100% with jeff. If it' s for offline, you already have solutions to record to prores right now.

RED doesn't need a prores solution, we want raw and we have to make raw a standard, it is almost a mission.

Being a red owner and editor/postproducer i hate it when someone start complaining about not being able to use their imacs! or telling me to not use 3K cause FCP don't like it! LOL, it's incredible.

If you are serious about your work, you should want the best. It's not red's fault, it's not red yo have to tease, it's apple. It's FCP that needs to go fordward, not the other way around.

I start using cs5, you can use it without a rocket, though i want one. Raw at full debayer at half res is better than prores for me. If you prefer avid, then use avid, and if next year apple releases an upgrade to FCP you like, come back to FCP, the thing is to be competitive.

To rent an alexa is way more expensive than a red, and dps are not very happy if they don't have raw. To think alexa is gaining market because of prores and not because it is a well built arri product is naive. I still prefer m-x red and native realtime workflow, going fordward, waiting for epic, hdrx, a rocket, more ram and more cores. Evolution, not revolution, is the key word.
 
Yes, that is the educational spirit I am talking about -:)

I want prores for offlines, too -:)
And I def want to go offline/online.
And start from RAW in online.

The hassels of RAW for the full workflow outweighs a simple transcode for a longform production with multiple parties involved, and having that in-camera would probably just propagate the platform even further.
 
Haven't read the whole thread, don't have time when working, but one module of the epic is going to create H.264 files for dailies... why not just change it to prores? For offline it would be a killer. Avid, Final Cut and Premiere-native direct editing capabilities. The R3D support in Avid is too heavy for anyting other then a BFG computer.
I don't see a usable way of using the 264 files from the camera, they are meaningless in a workflow. Good for dailies perhaps, but because every one in the industry has a mac as their personal computer, everyone would be able to view dailies.
 
You can shoot REDCODE RAW to your SSD and ProRes to an AJA Mini Ki now using EPIC. You get both at the same time. I would also expect there to be another solution in the near future... :-)

Jim
 
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