Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Stage 3 - I am worried

axel ebermann

axel ebermann

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
479
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
New York City
Website
www.redsquad-brooklyn.com
Jarred just commented on the stage 3 process and simultaneously taking orders for stage 4:

"we need to be able to take new camera orders during that long stage 3/3.5 process... because it is going to take along time"


Wow. I admit that really takes the wind out of my sails.


The "Beta Tattoo Program" apparently already churned out over a thousand Epic M's. Then stage 2 was processed as announced. Now apparently the Scarlet - formerly
known as the Epic-S - is shipping in numbers.


I slowly but surely can't help the feeling that by the time I will finally get my Epic-X all of my clients will have moved on.


Stage 3 sounded like a great deal. It was one of my major motivations for taking all of my savings and buying a Red One back then. But if a modern camera has a lifespan
of three to four years and I am locked into a schedule where I am getting it years after everybody else it becomes really disheartening.
 
Hey Axel, read the rest of the post for an explanation...

"Stage 4 cameras will not ship before Stage 2 cameras are complete. Stage 3.. its a process.. remember, we are taking back cameras that are sometimes years old and giving you just as much money as you paid for them the day you bought it... remember that part before we get into a bunch of drama again :)

Anyways.. we need to be able to take new camera orders during that long stage 3/3.5 process... because it is going to take along time.

As generous as we are with this trade in program, we are still a business, and still need to make money...we can't give away money forever while blocking new orders because of some perception of order and still keep our doors open. its really as simple as that.

If you ever want to see a program like this again... or want us to keep doing what we do for years to come.. you guys need to be a little more gentle and understanding.. OK?"
 
I understand your concern for sure. I'm stage 3 also, i imagine the next sensor will almost be out by the time my epic ships. I feel lucky to have the upgrade and i appreciate it. Not much else we can do but wait.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #4
Jarred,

Thanks for your reply.

I did read the entire post. And I do understand the generosity and implications of the trade in process.

But please also understand the concerns of me as an owner/operator who is fully invested in
Red as far as technology and workflow is concerned and would like to keep some of his clients.
This is increasingly difficult as the delivery schedule becomes more drawn out and thousands
of Scarlets and potentially stage 4 cameras will be delivered before Stage 3 ships.
 
axel ebermann said:
Jarred,

Thanks for your reply.

But please also understand the concerns of me as an owner/operator who is fully invested in
Red as far as technology and workflow is concerned and would like to keep some of his clients.
This is increasingly difficult as the delivery schedule becomes more drawn out and thousands
of Scarlets and potentially stage 4 cameras will be delivered before Stage 3 ships.
Click to expand...

Alas although I empathize with your dilemma. You're effectively asking Red to look out for your business ahead of their's...It's unrealistic. That's what stages 1 & 2 were about.
 
I don't wish to ruffle any feathers but some timeline, rough as it may be, would be truly appreciated. Are folks in Stage 3 looking at June or longer? Can somebody with pull FROM RED please comment on that?
 
What? Red always told us that all stage 2,3,and 3.5 will ship before any stage 4 and so on. anything else would be very unfair and very disappointing.

Remember, does people made red to what it is today, they really deserve that red keeps there promises.
 
Folks here are already talking Dragon sensor and I have yet to touch Epic besides NAB. This delay would probably break me even from the discounted stage 3. I have to wait for Joe Shmoe to return his camera before I send my camera in while stage 4 ships? My camera has been packaged and sitting here ready.
 
Axel,

I am in the exact same position and as I imagine many others are. I realise no one at Red is taking long lunches and instead are busting their balls to get cameras out but frankly I feel despair in relation to actually getting a damm Epic. The real problem is all the delays and long delivery times that I did not plan for. If I had any idea I was not getting a camera till sometime in 2012 I would have gone Epic M or stage 2. This is a gamble I took and I lost. The lack of any estimate for delivery also leaves you in limbo.

I have even looked into buying another camera but Red has built a near perfect camera for my requirements and although I don't believe the Epic creates the best pictures in the world I expect them to kick everybodies ass out of ballpark with the Red Dragon sensor upgrade.
I think it would be in Reds interest to give a qualified estimate on camera delivery subject to change, tidal waves, meteor strikes and the breakdown world economic order.
 
I've been impressed at the patience of Stage 3 people.

It's a good deal and we know it but to quote...

LANDO: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Han to this bounty hunter!

VADER: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly.

LANDO: No.

VADER: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave a garrison here.

Vader turns and sweeps into the elevator with Boba Fett. Lando walks swiftly down another corridor, muttering to himself.

LANDO: This deal's getting worse all the time.



See it's a joke. Ha ha.
 
Just for perspective... as I usually do not contribute to these threads...

Think of those of us who put down $5K.... over 1.5 years ago an sat patiently. I just got my camera 2 weeks ago and am still waiting for my Canon Ti.... NOt to say anyones suffering is lessened, just as point of perspective and taking the long view. I had $6300 to my name when the Stage 2 deal was offered, and 2.5 weeks into it I sent red a check for $5000. Again, April 2010.

Please do not flame me... And this again, is not to minimze the suffering. But it is a waiting game and they are, as Jarred alluded to, giving all of us a KILLER deal.
 
I think that a lot of stage 3 people are indeed concerned. The original concept was that these stages would be shipped before Epic became generally open to the public. Indeed, I think that if recollection serves me right, Stage 3 was the original trade in programme - stage 2 an after thought though I might be mistaken about this. Now that has changed and Epic stage 3 is going to take a long time. It is just going to be another side programme like the sensor programme for example. That has taken everyone by surprise including me because there was no indication at all concerning this until very recently.
 
Our Red is ready for Trade-In. We would fly to RED for an exchange with EPIC...
Jim, Jarred. Please start soon the programm.
 
Ah-ah-ah! It will be a hard way! But from the other hand Stage 2 has taken about 4 month (3 - the main part) why Stage 3/3.5 must be faster. So 3-4 month from 1 December.
 
Not 3-4 month from 1 December. As far as I've been able to tell, not a single person has even been asked to send in their R1 for evaluation yet. In the original announcement of the beginning of Stage 3, the Stage 3 Epics were supposed to start shipping in early December.
 
Maybe I am wrong but I think RED will send e-mails at once for everybody because if it will be personally it will take a very very long time. I think e-mails will be send at once for evetybody.
 
There is a small fact often overlooked between stage 2 and stage 3.

Stage 2 required people put actual money down at the time.

This is something Stage 3 people were not asked to do.

I think that makes a difference.

Stage 2 required a financial commitment at the time in May 2010.


David
 
Axel, I'm at Stage 3 as well. I opted for it because it is a very generous offer by Red and I have the time that I can trade for the price difference.

Yesterday I shot an international commercial with my old non-MX RedOne and a Phantom Flex. I can assure everyone that my old RedOne out-performes the 150k Flex in almost everything except the fact that the Phantom can shoot 1000 fps at 2.5K ands is a tad more light sensitive. I'm in no desperate need of a new camera. My RedOne is doing just fine. And in the rare case I need another camera I rent. As I did recently when I shot a promo with box champion Felix Sturm on an Epic M because I needed a lightweight 100 fps camera on a steadicam. Nice camera BTW...

Stage 3 is for the patient people. The rental guys who desperately need the newest toys for their hungry clients can go the Epic M route. The less desperate rental houses went the Stage 2 route. The private owners/filmmakers can go the stage 3 route, saving even more money.

If you are a rental house and claim that you are losing customers because Stage 3 is on delay you are in the wrong business, IMHO. If you are a producer/filmmaker and think that the delay will harm your business then I wonder how all the competition who rent survive?

I'm fairly early in the stage 3 line but I never thought of getting the Epic-X before March/April and won't be surprised if it will be early summer. Deposit is paid, all the accessories like Bomb EVF, Media, etc.. are already patiently waiting. It reminds me of the years 2006 - early 2008 when I waited for my RedOne. I can recall well how naked, how mediocre in some ways and how superior in other ways the RedOne was. When I'll get the Epic-X it will be a working camera right out of the box with play-back and all the other features I naturally now have with the RedOne. This is going to be e new Red-experience.

That no Stage 3 Epic is delivered this year was obvious, wasn't it? You know Red - you don't?


Warm Regards,

Hans
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top