EPIC Stage 1-4 Value Comparison Chart

[Dustin Cross]

I say once S35 Scarlet is out your R1 is worth about $4000. Why buy a used camera with no warranty when I can get a new camera that performs similarly? If you think you are going to sell your used up R1 for $10,000, when someone can get a new S35 Scarlet with a better sensor for less, you are confused. Spend the $4500 to upgrade and maybe, but even then the long boot time and heat problems alone are enough reason for someone to get a S35 Scarlett over R1.


Dusty

 

[Stephen Gentle]

I say once S35 Scarlet is out your R1 is worth about $4000. Why buy a used camera with no warranty when I can get a new camera that performs similarly? If you think you are going to sell your used up R1 for $10,000, when someone can get a new S35 Scarlet with a better sensor for less, you are confused. Spend the $4500 to upgrade and maybe, but even then the long boot time and heat problems alone are enough reason for someone to get a S35 Scarlett over R1.

But remember that the RED ONE has a lot on board that you will need modules for on the Scarlet, and (as of the last posted specs for the s35 Scarlet) a lot more flexibility in terms of frame rates. I think that at the very least the resale value on an R1 might go down to $10K - $11K at most, but it'd be more like $12K - $14K...

 

[Stephen Williams]

But remember that the RED ONE has a lot on board that you will need modules for on the Scarlet, and (as of the last posted specs for the s35 Scarlet) a lot more flexibility in terms of frame rates. I think that at the very least the resale value on an R1 might go down to $10K - $11K at most, but it'd be more like $12K - $14K...

Hi,

If it stays anything like as high as that once Scarlet is available off the shelf you will be very lucky. Personally not so keen of the speeds that require 2k & a 90 second boot time is hard to justify. A huge no of people want to use R1 because it's 'new & cool'.

Stephen

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Dusty, I see how you think, but you´re not thinking fourth-dimensionally (As Doc. Emmet L. brown from Back To The Future would say).

The value of the R1 is not constant in time, it changes, and at the point in time when the Tattoos go out, the value of an executed R1 will probably be at least twice of what it will be several months later when the Scarlet S35 becomes available.

So the value of R1 at stage 1 will be higher than at stage 2, simply because those will be months apart and the amount of R1s for sale, and so on...

Then there are all sorts of arguments and theories on how a Scarlet S35 will outperform a R1, and I see them clearly, but make no mistake (like so many did with R1), the price of a Scarlet S35 once announced at $7000, (now hinted to be slightly higher) will be a LOT higher before you can turn it on. You will need to add on modules and stuff for probably more like 7000$, and maybe a lot more (not inluding lenses, MB, FF)

A fully rigged an executed R1 (and add 4500$ for an upgrade) will be a very respectable tool for many many years to come, and it´s value will drop - but not to anything close to 0$.

It all depends of course, how you use these tools, and if you are able to let them pay for themselves.

The equation is radically different if you buy the camera as a privat person, with no prospect of making any money whatsover on it (and with no use for more than one camera at a time), in that case stage 3 is obvious.

When I look at it from a purely economical standpoint, I find the benefit of stage 1 over stage 2 substantial, I also do so for stage 2 over stage 3 and so on. And then there are all those other exciting reasons to go in early.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Stage one is the best business value. Period.

Stage 2 is the second best

3-4 equals a bit when it comes to what you can recover from the cam rentals.

My 2c.

 

[PaulClements]

The Red One's resale value will be minimal.

The Red One's 2nd camera/backup body to your new epic value could be in the tens of thousands. (But only if you have good clients or a good gameplan because if you don't then it's worth -$14000 (stage 1) and -$7100 (stage 2) (These figures take into consideration the value of the extra bits you get in each stage*))

Paul

 

[Danish P.V.]

For TATTOO guys, not only will they have the hot new camera that everyone is dying to try out...

Not me...we still take a backup camera with us when shooting with the Red One. Don`t get me wrong, the images of this device are insanely great, but...most people who had issues get the idea.

And paying 28K for a beta camera? I still don`t understand it - do those guys get a new, "final" camera when the beta is over?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Is that a "sour" Danish?

Is that a "sour" Danish?

(snip)
And paying 28K for a beta camera? I still don`t understand it - do those guys get a new, "final" camera when the beta is over?

Based on the "X" camera body replacement program for the early RedOnes and the commitment to their customers that RED has consistently shown, I would expect them to completely replace the hardware "IF" necessary.

FWIW I expect the build quality of the Tattoo cameras to be very high and that most of the evolution of the camera system will be firmware refinement.

Cheers - #19

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

And paying 28K for a beta camera? I still don`t understand it - do those guys get a new, "final" camera when the beta is over?

Yes, the TATTOO cameras will be upgraded as necessary throughout the beta program and will be the same as a final production EPIC when done. Only difference will be the exterior shell being tumbled aluminum instead of black anodized aluminum. ...You could say that's the badge of honor for being in the TATTOO program.

I guess that Stage-1 isn't for you... If the Stage-1 TATTOO program fits your business model, then it's the best deal, assuming you get invited. It's not just a beta camera, but the opportunity to be first with the new camera and technology, first to be able to upgrade the RED One to Mysterium-X. And an opportunity to help RED finish the final stage of development for these cameras.

As for backup cameras. The only backup I ever consider or have on call when shooting with the RED One is another RED One. That said, my camera shows over 1200 hours on it and I haven't had any failures <knock wood>. Only issues I had were in the beginning with trying to educate people on R3D post processing. That's mostly water under the bridge now as people are accepting of the RED, even excited about it in most places. At least where I work. Most of the "difficulties" in the beginning had more to do with industry resistance and bull-headed minds than it did with the technology not being ready. Then again, I know people who shoot RED and the first thing they do is dupe their footage onto HDCAM as a backup. One shop even spent some unreasonable amount of money on a new HDCAM deck with add-on board to accept the progressive HD-SDI signal (since there's no psf modes out of RED) so they could record the HD-SDI feed right off the camera. But hey, whatever floats their boat, eh? Some people have an already established comfort zone that they do not wish to stray from.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Jeff. Where do you read the hours?

G
(with no problems either...)

 

[Michael Neborak]

I say once S35 Scarlet is out your R1 is worth about $4000. Why buy a used camera with no warranty when I can get a new camera that performs similarly? If you think you are going to sell your used up R1 for $10,000, when someone can get a new S35 Scarlet with a better sensor for less, you are confused. Spend the $4500 to upgrade and maybe, but even then the long boot time and heat problems alone are enough reason for someone to get a S35 Scarlett over R1.


Dusty

Yes, because when the Red One came out all the other major professional cameras dropped in price significantly and film was immediately eliminated due to the fact that it had to be processed first... :sarcasm:

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff. Where do you read the hours?

press Undo + Select + Exit, you get a screen that reports the PIN, Hours, firmware revision, and power cycles for the RED battery that's connected.

I'm not sure if there's typically a way for the owner to reset the hour meter, but mine seems to have been reset when upgrading from Build 15 (no going back and all that), if I recall. It also was reset when I sent the camera in for the upgraded audio board. Mine currently shows HRS: 308 But I note it here and there.