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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic + Scarlet + Genus Hurricane Beamsplitter = ?

J

Jon MIchael Puntervold

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Since I bought both a Scarlet and an Epic, it seems reasonable to use the opportunity for stereowork, atleast for testing...

Anyone got first hand experience with the Hurricane and/or using Scarlet and Epic in stereo combo?

Lenses, what low cost options do I have? Will a double set of RPPs do or perhaps Panchros? How much light does the mirror steal?
 
Jon,

I have been using a Hurricane rig for some months now with two Epics and I have to say that I am quite impressed. It's main advantages are that it is low cost and light weight compared to virtually all the other modern rigs. It's disadvantage is that being lightweight, it is flimsy and easy to knock out of alignment. The only thing I have found that needs very careful watching is the vertical alignment which is adjusted by tilting the mirror itself which is, I am told by people more knowledgeable than I, of pretty good quality for the price. Both cameras lose a stop of light because of the beamsplitter but the difference between the two cameras is about 1/4 to 1/3 stop. I have not done critical tests but it does not seem to be worrisome. There is a slight red/ green colour difference between the two cameras but it is even across the the whole frame and so easily corrected in RCX. The opinion of the DIT who has been managing my output is that the mirror is very good for the price. post production have yet to complain. I have been putting cameras and rig through the wringer working in very dusty environments and shoving therig into small spaces. It have hung it upside down and knocked it around and only occasionally have we had had to repeat takes because I have bottomed out the camera on the floor when it is hung upside down and knocked the vertical adjustment screw. My output is all for TV (HD) but we are shooting at all resolutions up to 5K 2:! and even at that the errors are within a pixel or two quite often (when I am not throwing the rig around too much).

For independents, I think it is great value and I know has been used ion smaller features or as a second unit camera in Europe and Asia. I am very pleased with mine.

David
 
Testing seems to be key... if you're going to NAB you can probably check out some gear and ask around. RPP's should be good (although bulky), but you may have to do some work to find two that match perfectly... ask your bomb squad rep what he recommends as far as policy, etc. If you're closeby perhaps you could do some lens testing to find a pair. There are some offerings for matched pairs, not sure which companies are doing this and not but you can ask around. If you're interested in affordability over versatility and features, you may want to look into making your own rig - certainly doable, just takes a little brain and elbow grease. If you want to do some real quick testing, set them side by side (or make a little rig if you want) and shoot away. Obviously that's the simplest you can get, and there are more and more available resources, rigs, and post-tools coming out for use with stereoscopic image-making, which you should look into if you haven't already. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the input. The price of the Hurricane rig is so low that a DIY solution is not something I'm really interested in, but it worries me a little bit that it's possible to push the cameras out of alignment due to lightweight construction... Does the rig only support 15mm rods btw?
 
BTW: I've asked for a quote from 3ality technica a number of times, but never got an answer. What is the price of TS-5? My guess is around 40 000 USD...
 
The Hurricane uses 19mm rods as standard. Don't get me wrong, the alignment issue is not that bad but you do need proper monitoring to keep an eye on the vertical. Having said that, the most common problem I ever hear about with any rig is that the vertical alignment has drifted off. I think you have to just decide what you can afford and how you want to use it. If you can afford a 3ality rig, get one. If you want to shoot IMAX you will have to get one. HD on a steadicam, maybe you can consider lighter weight rigs. Even a Freestyle with Epics can still be pretty heavy. The Hurricane is about a quarter of the price of the Freestyle. If you are talking of something to start with and experiment with then the Hurricane is certainly an option. I should say here that I have no business interest in Genus or the Hurricane rig but am simply a satisfied user. Having said that, if I could afford one for what I do, I would certainly look hard at the 3ality rigs. But I can't and the kind of shooting I do requires me to have a rig continually available. Rental is not usually an option for me because I need the rig continually available for weeks or in my last project 5 months. I opted to try the Hurricane and whatever the limitations I wasn't disappointed.
 
Sounds good David, especially glad that 19mm is the standard! BTW: I'm interested in 3d/stereo to renew my personal facinations with cinema, but as I've grown acustomed to go via academia and theory to find inspirations for practical work, could you recommend any papers, books or documentaries/taped clases that cover the art form of stereoscopy - if you have come across anything? I'm not thinking about how to calibrate cameraes, but for instance theory about editing 3D and how it differentiate the cinematic language from regular cinematography.
 
David Barlow said:
The Hurricane uses 19mm rods as standard. Don't get me wrong, the alignment issue is not that bad but you do need proper monitoring to keep an eye on the vertical. Having said that, the most common problem I ever hear about with any rig is that the vertical alignment has drifted off. I think you have to just decide what you can afford and how you want to use it. If you can afford a 3ality rig, get one. If you want to shoot IMAX you will have to get one. HD on a steadicam, maybe you can consider lighter weight rigs. Even a Freestyle with Epics can still be pretty heavy. The Hurricane is about a quarter of the price of the Freestyle. If you are talking of something to start with and experiment with then the Hurricane is certainly an option. I should say here that I have no business interest in Genus or the Hurricane rig but am simply a satisfied user. Having said that, if I could afford one for what I do, I would certainly look hard at the 3ality rigs. But I can't and the kind of shooting I do requires me to have a rig continually available. Rental is not usually an option for me because I need the rig continually available for weeks or in my last project 5 months. I opted to try the Hurricane and whatever the limitations I wasn't disappointed.
Click to expand...

You may want to keep an eye on my Aero3D™ beamsplitter. It was designed and built to address the problems I saw with the hurricane design where they use rods attached to that very small crossbar which I felt made it almost impossible to keep it square and solid.

I showed the prototype Aero3D™ at NAB last year and sold a couple units with other peoples mirrors (and thanks for your patience Bruce :smiley:) but got a little bogged down with work on developing the U/W housing for epic and also evaluating suppliers for the beamsplitter with same specs as The ET mirrors. After a number of months (and many thousands of dollars) we have a really nice mirror and I'm ready to get into some volume production. I may be able to set one up in a friend's booth at NAB, but not sure - check back here for more info. Aero3D™ is designed to sell in the $4k-$6K range. If you are okay with fairly simple camera mounting and IA adjustment for Epic/Scarlet or dSLRs, delivery can be 2-3 weeks ARO. I was working on a leadscrew adjustable camera slider similar to the one on the hurricane but that's the part that got sidetracked and if you need that (it's an option and can be added later) its still a month or so behind.

Dave Cole has been doing some very nice stuff with the simple setup and his GH2s and now his 2 Scarlets and he's been a big help in keeping the focus on solid alignment and rigidity as he is one of the fussiest I've come across when it comes to doing 3D right. We have been doing some handheld with it, since it is pretty lightweight, but he also just put together an easy rig version that makes handheld completely doable.
 
Thank you for the nice resources Paul!

Michael, do you have more info on the rig, brochure or images?
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Thank you for the nice resources Paul!

Michael, do you have more info on the rig, brochure or images?
Click to expand...

Here's the press release:

http://www.aquavideo.com/press/AquaVideoAero3DPressrelease.pdf

Here's some added notes that explain a little of how it is different:

True to its name it uses aircraft type construction to make an extremely rigid and squared up unit, yet is easy to setup and can be transported in a carryon size case, including the standard 14x10 beamsplitter. The unit allows easy setup for both larger and smaller mirrors and can be used with numerous Professional camcorders, dSLRs and of course Red and other Digital Cinema cameras.

The beamsplitter/camera mount system is used to create smaller interaxial distances (center to center distance of the lenses) than could be achieved by mounting the cameras side by side. Absolute precision overlay of the images is essential to eliminate viewer eyestrain and psychological fatigue.

While some error can be corrected in postproduction through software manipulation, proper alignment in the production phase greatly reduces and simplifies that process, and in particular, alignment is extremely important in live 3D production.

Lightweight and easy assembly/disassembly is important for both production and transportation between productions. However, current units require substantial adjustment to align initially and to keep aligned.


AquaVideo has a Haas VF-1 CNC Machining center for use in building our underwater housings but is somewhat underutilized due to the low volume of our high end custom work. The Aero3D is a perfect production product to better utilize that capacity, and the precision of the CNC combined with an elegant design makes an extremely, strong and lightweight beamsplitter 3D rig.

Modern CNC machines are extremely accurate (typically 001" and often .0001 or less accuracy) within themselves -* i.e as long as the part is not removed or refixtured there is virtually no error in the slot geometry or the position of the holes which define the all important "squareness".*

The same principle applies to the crosspiece/camera mount components, the "squareness" is not defined by the shape or precision of the piece itself - it is strictly by the positions of the pattern of holes in the plate.*

This also leads to the further benefit that it can easily accommodate different mirror widths by simply using a different set set of crosspieces - yet "squareness" is maintained.*

Similarly, different camera heights and camera to mirror distances can be accommodated by simply moving the side mount component to a different set of holes on the side plate.

Rigidity of mirror slot is enhanced by the triangular shape at the top, again a part of the single piece side plate.

Lightweight is achieved through the aluminum alloy and the large cutout of the triangle portion. In use, stray light is kept off the mirror and camera lenses through the use of lightweight foam plastic side and top panels that are easily removed for camera access.

The elimination of a separate mirror frame, as used in most other units, reduces weight and allows the mirror to be easily accessible for rapid installation and removal. Further, various size mirrors can be easily accommodated through the use of stop screws in the side of the groove.

Fixation of the mirror, and* minute registration adjustments to the mirror geometry can be made with the top and bottom set screws in threaded crossholes through the groove.

To further enhance precision we use a single piece of mic6 aluminum for each side. Mic6 aluminum is ground and treated at the mill to make it both nearly perfectly flat and to relieve stresses in the material that can cause regular aluminum sheets to warp after machining.
 
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