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EPIC & Renting

Brad Walton

Brad Walton

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Age
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Location
Sandusky, Ohio
Website
www.cineres.com
Hi guys. I have a question for current users that rent out their Epics. I've recently joined with an investor and I've really been talking up RED to him. He's pretty much sold and we were discussing the Epic two nights ago. I brought up the possibility of renting Scarlets or Epics.

Basically, what I would like to know is any details on renting out Epics. How likely would it pay its self off or be profitable in 3-5 years? Who would be potential renters? I'm from Ohio and this year Cleveland has had some major Hollywood movies filmed downtown and in the surrounding areas. I'm suspecting there will be plenty more to come because of the tax credit given to Ohio productions. Would big budget production companies rent for these films? Just by word of owning an Epic/Epics, would business significantly increase?

Anyway, if anyone who doesn't mind giving me a little insight into renting out Epics, I would be greatly appreciative. I'll be looking into this and doing my homework on this subject a bit more.

Thanks guys!
 
Most cams can be amortized in 18 months through just rentals, but you need personal relationships with local users - you support them, they support you, and there is mutual trust. It is not an impersonal business, not at all.
 
Bigger features will NOT rent from smaller, local rental houses. They'll get their gear from one of the big LA or NY rental houses on a 1.2-day week. If they need additional/replacement gear, it's Fedex to the rescue. They may rent an occasional set of Ronfords or filters from you if they're in a pinch, but that's about it.

For all the other rentals, you'll need backups of everything, and backups of backups. That includes camera bodies. I'm own a small shop and I have over $10K in miscellaneous cables, $25K in filters.

All your accessories must me industry-standard (ie. Arri, maybe chrosziel). No cobbled-together pieces and parts. Forget about rehoused or off-brand primes. You better have a Redfocus, collimator, shim inventory, special tools, etc. and know how to use them.

Sorry to give you the bad news, but that's the way it works. It's a tough business, everyone wants a deal, and no one realizes the overhead.

Now if you want to be an owner operator that occasionally rents out his package, that's a whole different deal...
 
What is a 1.2 day week?
 
And you need at least two full kits (potentially 3 in the event you have a 3D feature). 2 is the absolute minimum, and any potential clients need to know you can support them with back up in the event anything goes sideways...and that includes knowing the camera and RC-X inside-out. You have to be totally pro-active with your sell job...people are not simply going to come to you.
 
You and your friend should start with 1 scarlet each.

Spend as much time as you can learning the cameras and enjoying them.

Place some ads at the local colleges, heck you could even teach a local workshop - IF you really understand the cameras, and some things about cinematography.

Make your money back on your Scarlets, then get a couple epics.

Don't count on Hollywood knocking for a rental.

Do Count on Hollywood Fever as local students start wanting to learn more about making movies, and local businesses want advertising with Panache.

Are you a:

Shooter
Photographer
Assistant
Tech enthusiast
None of the above
All of the above

Personally, I'd try to figure out how to get local corporate spots, local commercials, and local creative content going as a Camera person than try to trudge it out just doing rentals.

Take a look at what your competition is doing locally and see how you could make something more exciting and visually distinctive if you each had a scarlet, great tripod, monitors, media and accessories.

Roll your momentum.

I made enough money to buy my epic M basically Cash by buying another camera three years ago for $2600 on a credit card and HUSTLING.
 
Eric Oliver said:
What is a 1.2 day week?
Click to expand...

Rental prices are set per day, and go down as the rentals extend in time. One week (5 or 6 days) is usually billed 3 days. For long rentals, studios expect to pay the equivalent of 1.2 times the day rental fro one week. Usually 1 day is 1% of your the cost of the equipment, although that varies greatly upon the type of equipement and it's expected longevity.

What really needs to be taken into consideration is any camera you want to rent out needs to be accessorized, and unless you can ofer the different options required for different types of shoots, and shooters (DoPs), you run the risk they will go elsewhwere. It is usually preffered, quite understandalbly, to get all the equipement in one place. Therefore, to correctly accessorize a camera, ie. tripod, follow-focus, mattebox, filters, lenses, etc. you need to spend a lot more than the cost of the camera body...

Rental is not an easy business, and don't expect a quick return if your new to the business.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Thanks everyone! Sorry for the late reply. I've been extremely busy with editing. I certainly appreciate the valuable information you've all given me.

Dan Kanes said:
You and your friend should start with 1 scarlet each.

Spend as much time as you can learning the cameras and enjoying them.

Place some ads at the local colleges, heck you could even teach a local workshop - IF you really understand the cameras, and some things about cinematography.

Make your money back on your Scarlets, then get a couple epics.

Don't count on Hollywood knocking for a rental.

Do Count on Hollywood Fever as local students start wanting to learn more about making movies, and local businesses want advertising with Panache.

Are you a:

Shooter
Photographer
Assistant
Tech enthusiast
None of the above
All of the above

Personally, I'd try to figure out how to get local corporate spots, local commercials, and local creative content going as a Camera person than try to trudge it out just doing rentals.

Take a look at what your competition is doing locally and see how you could make something more exciting and visually distinctive if you each had a scarlet, great tripod, monitors, media and accessories.

Roll your momentum.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with you Dan. I think that's actually the smartest thing to do right now. I do pretty much everything in production. I write, direct, shoot, edit, etc. I have a small business and do a lot of local business projects. I also work with independent artists and bands. I've done pretty much everything you can think of in production except national spots.


Again, thanks everyone! The info is priceless to me and I am greatly appreciative of everyone's advice. I think I'll just start out slow for now and not jump into too much at a time.

Best,

Brad
 
Rob Ruffo said:
but you need personal relationships with local users - you support them, they support you, and there is mutual trust. It is not an impersonal business, not at all.
Click to expand...


Steve Dent said:
It can work out great if you know & trust your renters
Click to expand...

Totally agree. There are plenty of wannabe filmmakers out there. Having the money to pay for rental gear does not always come with the knowledge to properly handle the gear or, if the renter is hiring a crew, that the hired crew knows what they are doing. I will not rent out a $2000 Scheops mic to a crew who hires a boom op for $50/day or worse, just offers meals and credit and hires from a craigslist ad. Too much risk that that person will drop the mic, bang it into a ceiling fan, or lean the pole against a wall during lunch and then someone will tip it over. Or worse, get on a plane with your gear and fly off to Turkmenistan (nothing against Turkmenistanians). Those are the risks associated with "dry" hires.

Same goes for an EPIC/Scarlet. These are not toys.

And therein lies the rub: professionals who know how to handle nice gear, such as major studios or well-funded indies, are not likely to rent from a one-man shop in Cleveland. Meanwhile, the bulk of the local demand will mostly be from folks starting out and who may not have the required skills.

You also have to think about competition. There will be somewhere between 5 and 10K EPICs out there - many of which will be in the hands of owners who, like you, want a return. Prices will fall. There's going to be even more Scarlets, further diluting the market.

I like to do "wet" hires. That is gear plus labor. In particular: your labor. At least you are on set with your own gear and can see how it is handled. Or, you can develop relationships with local crew members who you can recommend and can trust with your gear. When a producer comes in from out of town, they want to rent/hire from as few places as possible. So if you can offer gear plus a crew, you have a leg up.
 
Totally agree with Max.
I'm much more "micro" than he is, but most of my rental business is with my labor (skill) involved.
Plan on having 2 of every cable. ACs will come in and expect all the bracketry and accessories they are used to from Clairmont, Otto, CSC, and Panavision. None of those items will ever earn you a dime.
Hard to make it with one set of lenses. I guarantee that there will be many times where two DPs will ask for the same set of lenses on the same day, then the lenses will sit on a shelf for the next week.
Support is important. Bench equipment, tools, and skills
And he is right in asserting that any "big" production will roll into town with gear already.
But go for it! Life is nothing without risk and adventure. You may be pleasantly surprised.
BTW, this has been a topic of discussion before:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?57109-Epic-Rental-House-Business-Plan&
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?57305-Question-for-Owner-Operators&
Cheers,
H.
 
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