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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic render...

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Bruce Allen said:
So what Jim is saying is that they can't carve out a shape like the 235 because they have a core block of sensor, circuit boards etc that they'd be carving INTO?

And that the core block can't be changed in shape at the moment?

Sorry if I am just repeating stuff.

BTW, I am still not sure what Gibby thinks about any actual specific design suggestion - eg connectors on the back vs the side?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

If these are really the limitations, unchangeable, carved in stone, already paid for the parts from vendors, etc.., just flip it all upside down, flip the sensor and controls and dumb side. This would actually improve things greatly... Use a detachable riser block with an aggressive, as forward as possible cutout that brought the base with the addition of a ET style base to Arri studio rod standards. The extra height of the body, while not desirable would be negated by the massive benefits of having a lower relative optical axis.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
So what Jim is saying is that they can't carve out a shape like the 235 because they have a core block of sensor, circuit boards etc that they'd be carving INTO?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

Just like Arri doesn't have room in a 235 for a sensor and board stack. The 235 is also a MOS camera. Epic can never be a 235 and a 235 can never be Epic. Just a reminder...

Jim
 
Matt Uhry said:
If these are really the limitations, unchangeable, carved in stone, already paid for the parts from vendors, etc.., just flip it all upside down, flip the sensor and controls and dumb side. This would actually improve things greatly... Use a detachable riser block with an aggressive, as forward as possible cutout that brought the base with the addition of a ET style base to Arri studio rod standards. The extra height of the body, while not desirable would be negated by the massive benefits of having a lower relative optical axis.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

What you just described changes the cutaway about 1/4".

Jim
 
IMO if possible the shoulder pad should be modular, removable, slideable forward and back, and not interfere with the quick mounting and de-mounting of the camera on a tripod. If modular, it would be great if the shoulder pad itself was also sub-modular, to allow the user to tweak the fit for max comfort for their shoulder and each successive load on the camera. A sliding or at least multi-mount location shoulder pad system would allow easy adjustment of front/back COG. Balancing the right/left load would entail balancing the EVF with a battery and other accessories. A closely balanced front/back and right left camera on your shoulder, coupled with a comfortable shoulder pad, make all the difference in the work when you do a full day of shoulder held work.

For hand held away from the shoulder, again it is about front/back, and right/left balance and a comfortable hand grip to grab so you can balance the center of gravity of the rig.

It's like the old Moody Blues song title "A Question of Balance"
 
Since the distance between the PL mount and the bottom are locked in stone (assuming you want to save the Arri standard)... the ONLY thing in question is how high the cut-up can be. Turning the camera upside down or inside out doesn't change the 1st part.

Jim
 
Here's a little diagram that keeps the floor as is but just moves the pad forward.

CGdiagram.jpg


I think this is more the size of the Red One than Epic but it serves to illustrate the point.
 
Evin... nice graphic and I understand. :-) The problem is the board stack with this design. We have been talking offline and have a few other ideas to try out. Not sure they will work, but we'll explore...

Jim
 
Couple questions about the modular back panel. Will there also be a dock for it on the smart side? And how will it operate?

oh, and will you be able to purchase additional "REDRemotes" or "REDPods" so that there can be control onboard and remotely simultaneously? Yes?

:)
 
Jannard said:
What you just described changes the cutaway about 1/4".

Jim
Click to expand...

Yes, looking at the render again I see what you mean, Red One ergo frustration spilling over, I apologize.

1/4 inch lower would be that much better, it all counts. Also the cutout forward equals that much better balance, as Evin so well illustrated.

Could I mention again how much I like my R1 ? It's been working constantly, like a champ. I got some comments from the clients on the Disney Job that I am shooting right now on last nights footage, "Beautiful, Spine-Tingling Images" anyway, I digress, but maximum respect for what you've done so far. Its real, it works, it looks freaking good.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Matt Uhry said:
Also the cutout forward equals that much better balance, as Evin so well illustrated.
Click to expand...

BUT GUYS! That would men that the cut out is just by the lens. You would never be able to have a EVF then, it would be in front of the lens if your on a 18mm.
 
weirdcrew said:
BUT GUYS! That would men that the cut out is just by the lens. You would never be able to have a EVF then, it would be in front of the lens if your on a 18mm.
Click to expand...

I've routinely ride my EVF out past the Mattebox on the ET mount using a 16mm Zeiss standard speed, no problem at all.
 
Something to think about - the RED EVF, if indeed it will be the same EVF used on Epic, is a long EVF - almost 9" long. The farther forward you place the shoulder pad, the commensurately farther forward the EVF needs to be adjusted. If too far forward the EVF can get in the way of operation of some lenses and the matte box on real short lenses. If the current EVF is to be used on Epic and Epic is as short as projected, there may be problems between achieving COG with the pad placement and a resulting need to slide the EVF too far forward.

The built in shoulder pad on most pro EFP camera systems is usually placed real well for COG balance with the average lens, EVF, and battery. It is also cut out deep into the camera bottom and the pad itself is canted at an angle for good comfort on the shooter's trapezious muscle.
 
To: Impagliazzo- That defeats the purpose of a smaller lighter camera body.

True Gibby, but most video camera EVFs have 90º prisms in them, bringing the weight back over the lens. That would not be a bad idea for the Epic EVF or as an upgrade to the existing one. One solution I've observed is sending the EVF up at a 45º angle and looking up into it. It's uncomfortable but helps the balance. Either way every ounce you can get farther over your shoulder the better. The EVF is going to stick out no matter what, so you might as well balance it. That's why I suggested putting a removable battery plate on the back.
 
Impagliazzo said:
Yeah, the shoulder mount could have a counterbalance weight that sticks out to the back.

That would be the only solution I can think of.
Click to expand...

A battery can accomplish that, But so can a sliding shoulder mount like the prototype ET Shoulder I've been testing. On that, the camera is mounted on an ARRI base, and the mount itself has a built-in ARRI lightweight V plate that the bridge plate rides on. With the flip of a lever you can slide the camera forward and backward on the V plate and easily front/back balance the rig.

Perhaps a similar approach would do well with Epic, rather than a fixed shoulder pad well, which would then require you to front/back balance the rig with batteries and accessories to dance well with the size lens you're using.
 
Evin Grant said:
That defeats the purpose of a smaller lighter camera body.
Click to expand...

Then the pad ( or multiple pads available) should be modular, mountable in multiple locations, and/or slidable.
 
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