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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic & Red One MX Side By Side

Daniel Soderberg

Daniel Soderberg

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Has anyone done a side by side comparison of identical shots from an Epic and a Red One MX?
I am about to give it a go myself, but wanted to see if anyone else has already taken a look.
 
Daniel I think there is only one out there, pretty brief, on Vimeo.

It's a tough oen to do, because one of the advantages of Epic over Red - and to a greater degree over Scarlet - is its wider field of view with the same lens - so more depth of field, better rendition, and, at 5K, a zoom-out from noise.

If you only use the 4K crop, you're missing part of what's great about the Epic, but if you don't its hard to compare as you'd need a 24 on on one and maybe a 35 on the other for them to match - and even if these two lenses are from the same series they won't be the same, per say - so one is left wondering if its the lens or the cam - or one is kinda missing the point.

You really see the difference most in HSL qualified, aggressive secondary grades. Epic at low compression 5:1 or less - can be pushed around a lot more in color-qualified secondaries than Redcode 36. at more than 6:1, the Red One Redcode 36 usually wins.

I would also do somw research into which shots most show the Epic outshining the Red One - like clipping to white, I agree with Gunleik, is a lot nicer on Epic, nice on Red One, probably least nice on Scarlet (not sure why Scarlet should look the same as Epic in that way but it doesn't seem to).

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I think you will be surprised by how often Red One Mx holds up to Epic, and by the fact that Scarlet is just a slight notch below Red One, but still, also, very very similar.
 
Thanks for the info Rob, I know it's hard to compare because of the obvious differences in sensor size/field of view. But for the sake of seeing a real difference in highlight/shadow clipping, I think I'll give it a whirl. I feel like I've noticed this difference which Gunleik also agrees with, and I want to prove it to myself, and I'll share here.

Rob Ruffo said:
Daniel I think there is only one out there, pretty brief, on Vimeo.

It's a tough oen to do, because one of the advantages of Epic over Red - and to a greater degree over Scarlet - is its wider field of view with the same lens - so more depth of field, better rendition, and, at 5K, a zoom-out from noise.

If you only use the 4K crop, you're missing part of what's great about the Epic, but if you don't its hard to compare as you'd need a 24 on on one and maybe a 35 on the other for them to match - and even if these two lenses are from the same series they won't be the same, per say - so one is left wondering if its the lens or the cam - or one is kinda missing the point.

You really see the difference most in HSL qualified, aggressive secondary grades. Epic at low compression 5:1 or less - can be pushed around a lot more in color-qualified secondaries than Redcode 36. at more than 6:1, the Red One Redcode 36 usually wins.

I would also do somw research into which shots most show the Epic outshining the Red One - like clipping to white, I agree with Gunleik, is a lot nicer on Epic, nice on Red One, probably least nice on Scarlet (not sure why Scarlet should look the same as Epic in that way but it doesn't seem to).

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I think you will be surprised by how often Red One Mx holds up to Epic, and by the fact that Scarlet is just a slight notch below Red One, but still, also, very very similar.
Click to expand...
 
Daniel, we regularly do Epic/R1 mixed stuff. I literally have to shoot a chip chart and gray card with every setup and shoot. The cameras are that different. I'm obviously not talking field of view.

Also, we routinely have to pull test clips, match the two cameras within RCX and then spit out respective Look Settings for them to match with on-set monitors. This is because R1 doesn't support Redcolor 2 or 3 OR Redgamma 2 or 3. Basically it's near impossible to get a match unless you have something like Live Grade (or another HD Link Pro Blackmagic based program) feeding LUTs to the monitors. I can't wait for that to be added in the next R1 build.

From what I've seen from tests, 4K 7:1 is essentially identical to 4K Redcode 42 with the slightest edge going to the Epic delivering the tiniest bit of improved detail in highlights. Anything from there works in the Epic's favor. We just shot some great looking 5KFF 3:1 talking head shots with total black background for evaluating noise. We pushed it 4 stops with virtually no noise (12,800 ISO) graded in RedColor 3 with RedLogFilm. Amazing how well the camera holds up.
 
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