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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC > ProRes via AJA KiPro Mini

Ok so the unit's good for playback, and as a substitute for R3ds if you're happy with a Prores 422 master, and base frame rates only for now..
But I ask again, has anyone achieved frame accurate timecode from the HD-SDI on the Epic?
It's a second out on the Red One, in my experience.
And if not, this ain't an offline proxy module alternative.
 
Concerns about TC fidelity are one of the reasons I am so interested in the Sound Devices PIX 240 as it has a full blown TC generator and reader internally that I am hoping can serve as a master clock for everything. Since I have no firsthand experience with the PIX 240 this is mere supposition, but I see the Epic(s) as TC slaves matched to the PIX 240's TC generator.

One potentially slick application of this (Mark P. is doing something similar with the KiPro) would be to mount the PIX on the same stand as the primary directors/video village monitor tethered to the Epic by SDI (or wireless via Camwave, etc), looped through to the monitor input, with hero audio from the mixer sent to it over XLR or high end wireless (Lectro, etc).

Sorry to keep talking PIX 240 on the KiPro thread but they seem to be very similar products and of great value on many projects. I am drawn to the uber quality of the audio section in the Sound Devices unit (its based on the highly regarded 7 series mixers) and can even imagine it sitting on the sound guy's cart with an SDI feed from camera - though that might be a union jurisdiction nightmare in places like LA.

In any case, while I am a purist about working with the RAW R3D media the real world often seems to care little about my opinion. Hmmm, maybe that's why I post so much, I can at least imagine somebody cares what I think :rolleyes5:

Cheers - #19
 
Mark Toia said:
Most certainly is. :)))))

REDGAMMA2 or REDLOG out of the HDSDI port/plug in 10bit!\

works a treat..
Click to expand...

I completely missed out on this!

Thanks Mark for the info!
And thank you RED TEAM for making this possible!

Big win lol
 
Mark Pugh said:
Ok so the unit's good for playback, and as a substitute for R3ds if you're happy with a Prores 422 master, and base frame rates only for now..
But I ask again, has anyone achieved frame accurate timecode from the HD-SDI on the Epic?
It's a second out on the Red One, in my experience.
And if not, this ain't an offline proxy module alternative.
Click to expand...


If your just going to finish in PRO RES HD as per the Alexa does.. Then why do you need a matching time code.? .. for what? Unless you go back to raw?....

I understand your thinking of your wanting to edit those PRORES files and then link them back to the R3D's.. but if your going to just use a PRO RES in & out work flow, then whats the problem.

When you shoot a 5D there is no time code...(well sort of) you transcode those files to DNxHD or PRO RES and throw the H264's away... you never needing to go back to those for any reason. Time code becomes irrelevant if your mastering from the actual footage your using to edit with.

Aaaaaaaaaanyway... :)
 
If your just going to finish in PRO RES HD as per the Alexa does.. Then why do you need a matching time code.? .. for what? Unless you go back to raw?....

I understand your thinking of your wanting to edit those PRORES files and then link them back to the R3D's.. but if your going to just use a PRO RES in & out work flow, then whats the problem.

When you shoot a 5D there is no time code...(well sort of) you transcode those files to DNxHD or PRO RES and throw the H264's away... you never needing to go back to those for any reason. Time code becomes irrelevant if your mastering from the actual footage your using to edit with.

Aaaaaaaaaanyway... :)
Click to expand...

But timecode is good for syncing with audio ;-)
 
At IBC I was checking all these Prores options; Kipro mini, pix 240 and atomos Samurai. At first the Samurai seemed a sweet deal, especially for its price, but for all the options (HDMI, AVID DNXHD you have to pay extra. The PIX became my favorite, changeable between CF and SSD and UDF format (which the KiPro has not. Also the sound and timecode options seem brilliant (you don't need a Lockit anymore) The LCD viewing options are limited, but they are working on that (1:1 pixel, peaking etc) Great for video assist and editing purposes. Sturdy housing (like the Aja). Just had a bad sales rep at AJA and a great one at Sound Devices. I've made up my mind...
 
Mark Toia said:
If your just going to finish in PRO RES HD as per the Alexa does.. Then why do you need a matching time code.? .. for what? Unless you go back to raw?....

I understand your thinking of your wanting to edit those PRORES files and then link them back to the R3D's.. but if your going to just use a PRO RES in & out work flow, then whats the problem.

When you shoot a 5D there is no time code...(well sort of) you transcode those files to DNxHD or PRO RES and throw the H264's away... you never needing to go back to those for any reason. Time code becomes irrelevant if your mastering from the actual footage your using to edit with.

Aaaaaaaaaanyway... :)
Click to expand...


TC is very relevant.
 
Mick van Rossum said:
At IBC I was checking all these Prores options; Kipro mini, pix 240 and atomos Samurai. At first the Samurai seemed a sweet deal, especially for its price, but for all the options (HDMI, AVID DNXHD you have to pay extra. The PIX became my favorite, changeable between CF and SSD and UDF format (which the KiPro has not. Also the sound and timecode options seem brilliant (you don't need a Lockit anymore) The LCD viewing options are limited, but they are working on that (1:1 pixel, peaking etc) Great for video assist and editing purposes. Sturdy housing (like the Aja). Just had a bad sales rep at AJA and a great one at Sound Devices. I've made up my mind...
Click to expand...

Hey Mick,

Did you get any shipping dates on the pix 240?

thanks
 
Just upgraded the Epic and KiPro Mini. 25fps works great. TC is frame accurate. We count 9 frames difference between SSD and CF capture.
Conclusion: Epic and KiPro Mini works like a dream..
 
Jan A. Houge said:
Just upgraded the Epic and KiPro Mini. 25fps works great. TC is frame accurate. We count 9 frames difference between SSD and CF capture.
Conclusion: Epic and KiPro Mini works like a dream..
Click to expand...

Thanks for this update. Was about to do some tests to confirm this, but good to know what the outcome is going to be.
 
Mark Pugh said:
Ok so the unit's good for playback, and as a substitute for R3ds if you're happy with a Prores 422 master, and base frame rates only for now..
But I ask again, has anyone achieved frame accurate timecode from the HD-SDI on the Epic?
It's a second out on the Red One, in my experience.
And if not, this ain't an offline proxy module alternative.
Click to expand...

Mark,
We just received ours and it is 100% frame accurate.
 
Jan A. Houge said:
As far as we can see, it is tc accurate to the frame. The 9 frames we counted is the difference in the length of the clips.
Click to expand...

It is tc frame accurate - difference in clip lengths is that the R3D will start recording a fraction of a second before the KiPro Mini.

Just try not to call "action" until you roll 9-10 frames :)
 
Mark Toia said:
If your just going to finish in PRO RES HD as per the Alexa does.. Then why do you need a matching time code.? .. for what? Unless you go back to raw?....
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, Alexa uses 444 12 bit (Resolve says 16 bit) iteration of Prores. 422 10 bit Prores is a far cry from that.
 
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