Epic & Pix 240 "Green lines" issue

[Curt Pair]

I did about a week's worth of testing with my Epic M / Pix 240 combo before taking it into the field with a client... everything worked great in the testing... I shot from a tripod, while walking, moving in a car, all sorts of stuff... I didn't even notice a need for an offset with the audio!

The first job went without a hitch. Everything worked perfectly! On our second effort in the field with the Pix 240, we had some issues... our client reported to us that on two clips (out of several hours of footage) there "green lines" in the video and the sync got off by as much as 6 seconds! I am boggled... (We talked an HD client into using the Epic instead of another camera as it could provide the "look" of film better than the other camera. They couldn't handle the 5K footage, so we suggested using the Pix 240 in their choice of Avid DNxHD 145! )

Here's a link to the video: https://vimeo.com/37137991

I've contacted both Sound Devices and Red and both seem to think the problem lies with the other... I don't care about blame, I just want to rectify the situation and NOT have it happen again.

I'd appreciate any help out there, as I'm a bit stumped right now.

The work flow was as follows:

• Audio feed from a Sound Devices 522/744 INTO the Pix 240 via XLR cable
• Audio OUT of the Pix 240 INTO the Red Epic with custom built Remote Audio 5 pin XLR to dual right angle mono mini jacks
• Video feed OUT of Epic INTO Pix 240 (5K 2:1 ~ timebase of 29.97p to 1080, 30p (29.97) yes, we knew about the black bars...)
• All menus/selections in Pix set to Red: Timecode, clip name, record trigger, etc.

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Tom.Wong]

are you on the latest firmware for the pix? if so, this is something you're gonna have to contact sound device directly with. you can also try reflashing the firmware to see if it fixes the issue.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

This is a known issue. If you read the Pix 240 thread in Recon you will find a lot of info.
According to Matt at Sound Devices there are two solutions to the green lines problem.
I have two Pix 240's and two Epics. Both of their solutions work, but to be safe I have decided to use them simultaneously.
One: Boot the Epic BEFORE you boot the Pix.
Apparently there is some kind of weird SDI output during boot up from Epic that freaks out the Pix.
Two: Buy the Epic sync cable and genlock the Epic to the Pix.
I do both things and have not had a return of green lines which I previously was getting.
Since the Pix is still new to me I still also continue to record on the Epic's SSD as a back up.

 

[Curt Pair]

Tom,

Thanks for taking the time... yes, both camera and DVR have latest firmwares... I will try your idea.

I can't believe you responded so fast! This forum is great!

 

[Curt Pair]

Mark,

To be fair... I did do a search on the forum for this... however, I read through pages and pages of just generic Pix 240 stuff... I didn't see anything. I'll confess, I'm new to Red, I'm new to the forum. There is TONS of great info here... but sometimes it is hard to find. Lots of posts that aren't necessary.

I did speak with both Red and Sound Devices today on the phone... both seemed very surprised about this... Honestly, I do remember reading something about "green lines" about two months ago, but couldn't recall that info, and couldn't find it here. I was told by SD today that I should boot the Pix 240 first! That is interesting... I'm going to choose to take YOUR word for the boot process, as you HAVE a camera!

I ordered the sync cable from Red last week, and received notice that it shipped today. Hopefully in two days the problem will be eradicated.

Thanks for the help! Much obliged.

BTW: My initial testing and first project didn't need any audio delay/offset... on this project, I noticed it was slightly out of sync. Are you applying 170 miliseconds or so of delay in your audio with the Pix 240? That's another test to perform this week!

 

[Greg M]

You should also consider rolling on the Epic as a "back-up". You can always export better quality footage and have more look options.
Im surprised SD's tech support wasnt aware of the issue...its been discussed several times.

I do have to ask why you would want to use the Epic if the output is Avid DNxHD 145?...seems like such a waste of a great camera on many levels.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

It's definately a waste unless you need to deliver a 1080p file at end of shoot. Then it is amazing.

 

[Greg M]

It's definately a waste unless you need to deliver a 1080p file at end of shoot. Then it is amazing.

no doubt, but DNxHD 145 as the only recording?

also there is no 1080 16:9 output available, so you must further degrade the signal or letterbox it.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

I almost exclusively shoot TV commercials which are released on 720P.
1929x990?, or whatever the exact verticle count is, is still over sampled for my needs.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Also, there is a choice of DNXHD 145 or 220.

 

[Curt Pair]

Hey guys, I don't actually "just shoot" on the Pix... I also shoot with the Epic at 5K 2:1. I apologize if I misled you.

The reasoning for shooting with the Epic is that some of these clients want "other cameras..." that I don't own. I've had to rent these cameras in the past. I'd prefer not to. Therefore, I pitched the use of the Epic instead of those cameras. These broadcast outlets don't have the infrastructure to handle or accommodate 5K files. They have very quick turn around times. In fact, we shot on Monday and Tuesday, they logged on Wednesday, cut on Thursday and it aired on Friday. I offered to trans-code the files myself, as I have a Red Rocket, knowing they wouldn't pay for that... but they turned me down. The only reason they allowed me to use a camera I own, instead of renting what they originally wanted is that I could provide them Avid DNxHD 145 files, which is what they were going to encode the tape based HDX900 footage with anyway...

I realize this kind of thinking isn't normal or even appreciated on this forum... I'm thinking outside the Red box here. I'd rather shoot with a camera, even in ENG style, that I own, than rent something and lose money. I give them the "look" they've been dreaming of for years and everyone is happy. They love the shallow depth of field. Most have fallen over backwards at the looks I've created in camera or imported through RCX. They don't want to use the DSLR's because of the codec. Therefore I have gone to great lengths to devise methods to "convert" my clients from their current needs/formats to 5K, by way of introducing them to the "look" of an Epic versus what they are getting now... The Pix is a stop-gap at best. A means to an end. It takes time... this is the taste... later, they'll want more. I did this same procedure with Sony XDCam HD years ago. It worked great... Eventually those clients didn't want to just shoot in XDCam HD, they wanted to edit in that format too... I'm now taking them all to the next level, once again!

In this particular instance I even gave them the 5K footage as a safety net. This way, they could use RCX to trans-code any shot that may have given them a problem... I'm glad I did too. They indeed did have to go through that process to save that interview.

Ironically, they "letter box" HD footage as an effect all the time... We've found that the bars output by the Epic are just about covered (98-99%) in broadcast action safe too.... only noticeable if encoded for the internet.