EPIC News...

[Vico Martin]

speeeeeeeeeeeeed! wow, someone has seen this bike.............

Congrats team, what a week!

 

[Steve Das]

Will we still want the Monstro? :crazy:

Someone asked Jannard this at the Feb. Red Day and he said that
in fact they have something "on paper" that will come after Monstro.

 

[Tom Mitchell]

I understand why Epic shoots 5K @ 120fps while Scarlet shoots 5K @ 30fps. I'm just saying I don't understand why that precludes Scarlet from shooting 4K a little faster than 5K, 3K a little faster than 4K, etc, like Epic does.



I encourage you to post this the next time someone says "Red sucks, Jarred is an ass, down with Red, I love Arri, Alexa beats Epic."

But I think it's silly that someone says this any time someone posts even the tiniest dissatisfaction. Red is doing amazing things but they're not flawless, they're humans. Some of these suggestions/complaints/requests will help Red make their products better.

I'd argue 40 pages of posts saying only "Jim you're a God" every time there's an announcement hurts the forum way more than my extremely mild complaint (I even specifically said "only" complaint).

I'm camera agnostic. I wouldn't class my self as a RED fanboy, far from it. I be the first to pick flaws in the camera if i find any, in order improve the next models.

I can't see where in my post i wrote 'jim you are god' or implied it. infarct i said that they needed not to get complacent and keep their teeth sharp

I was just explaining why you don't get the same performance for a fraction of the price. even if it might be deliberately limited in the firmware. They have done the R&D for a high end camera. but they also wanted to make and affordable option, for the indie film makers. And perhaps the scarlets are being subsidized slightly by the epic cameras. and therefor needs to be some intensive at the professional end to buy the Epic.

Though I am assuming this info, not going on some inside info. but merely trying to explain why they might have chosen to limit or forgo some of the extended features of what the epic can do.

I think it is good to complain and ask for more, if you don't ask you don't get. But if you think about it, in a years time if sales dip they could start to enable some features to help sales again.

But it like getting cookies and asking for milk, if you expect to pay for a scarlet and get a epic.

 

[David Battistella]

This is great news!

If this is possible at 5K what FPS speeds could we be looking at for 4K 3K and 2K from EPIC. Just a ballpark.

David

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

This is great, out of my budget at the moment, but in a few years time this level of technology will naturally come down to a more affordable price range.

And little Scarlet will do just fine. :smile:

BTW, any chance for a 150fps burst at 5K?

Just curious. :wink5:

 

[Kaku Ito]

Stunning, simply stunning.

 

[Luis Melgar]

This is an example of why we love RED attitude.

For example, with the Canon 5D. You buy the camera. The hardware could record 25p and 24p video, but the camera don't allow it. Canon it's a cool company and after half and a year asking for... they update te camera. Other companies do not even do that.

Red is always looking for get more and more from its cameras. Working to gave us more and more... Even without ask for it, and always for FREE.

It'll be an honor make bussiness with you... When S-35 Scarlett will released!

 

[Jason Diamond]

I can think of a few things to blow up...

I want to see an iPad explode at 2.37:1 very sloooooow.

 

[Tom Mitchell]

I can think of a few things to blow up...

I want to see an iPad explode at 2.37:1 very sloooooow.

I see what you did there, nice choice

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Redcode 42, 5K, 120fps? (No one answered me on the other page...)

 

[Steven Caesare]

5ms being the read-reset speed of the sensor, I don't see how anything over 200fps is possible, at least not in full frame.
Estimating that the smaller crop of the sensor means an approximate 4s or slightly below read-reset time for that section of the sensor, then 250fps should be the theoretical max at 2k.
Unless of course I'm overlooking something important.
Perhaps someone better informed could comment on this.

However, 5ms is for the entire sensor, and typically* the rows are reset in rolling fashion after the read. At 2560 rows for Epic, that's on the order of ~2us (microsecs) per row.

Additionally, even though resets are row based and thus the same duration regardless of if you are reading the full width of the row or a subset, from a practical standpoint when windowing you are reducing the horizontal size as well (to maintain correct aspect ratio), thus the number of horizontal pixels read out per row is also reduced. Therefore the pixel rate that the the rest of the pipline (codec, bus bandwidth, sotrage bandwidth, etc...) has to deal with is also reduced.

So, as we saw on the Red One, when reducing the AREA of the sensor used by a factor of four (i.e. 4K to 2K), then the framerate also went up by a factor of four (30FPS to 120FPS). Thus if the same holds true for Epic, then it may be possible to see a "2K 2.37:1" mode (2560x1080) running at 480fps. That about 1.33 gigapixel/sec, which falls within the 1.5Gps that Deanan said the Epic is capable of.

If indeed reducing the horizontal pixel count linearly affects the framerate as well, then it should theoretically be possible to shoot HD (1920x1080) at 640fps. However to do that, the read-reset time would need to be ~1.45us per row, and that may be the limiting factor, even though it' still only 1.33Gps.

Could the Epic hardware be capable of SD (720x480) at 2430fps? I doubt it, as that's less than 1us per row. It might be capable of that resolution at 1040fps though. That maintains 2us per row read/reset time and is only 0.36Gps. Not sure RED wants to be in the SD game though.

-sc

* Although the Mysterium X is anything but typical

 

[gbalaji]

Great News Jim.

What about the frame rates @ 1080p or 2K. We need higher frame rate in these formats something like 1000fps to 3000fps like what the new Phantom Flex does.

To know more info about Phantom Flex check here - http://www.visionresearch.com/index...source=VerticalResponse&utm_term=Phantom Flex

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QFT

5K 2.37:1 is 5120 x 2160... which means you can crop the ends and get Quad HD from the same file... 3840 x 2160.

Jim

Super bad-ass to know! This is awesome! :emote_happyhappy:

I am sure they are already in the plan but, please, could we get real thin Quad HD guides in 2.37:1 mode?

5K 2.37:1 is now 120 fps.

Jim

Gotta love it when they give you (20%!) MORE than they said they would.

Haters taking note of this one?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff wants EPIC right now! Please send me one, I don't care if it's "finished".

...or could I at least just buy a BOMB EVF, I really really actually do need a new EVF.

 

[Thor Melsted]

However, 5ms is for the entire sensor, and typically* the rows are reset in rolling fashion after the read. At 2560 rows for Epic, that's on the order of ~2us (microsecs) per row.

Right, that's why I took a wild guess at 4ms or under for windowed 2k. I just didn't do the math - it was late I also assumed it wasn't as simple as just height/2 = read-reset/2.
I'd love to be wrong. A 500fps camera at this price would be insane.

Who are we kidding? A 100fps 5k digital cinema camera is already insane at this price.

 

[Gautam Pinto]

Not Insane

Not Insane

This progression is not insane at all. Red themselves have said that film is not subject to Moore's Law. Indirectly they are referring to themselves, (and electromagnetic capture devices / information technologies) in general, as being subject to "The Law of Accelerating Returns" aka "Kurzweils Law". This means that this kind of progress / price performance is actually very normal and is therefore not insane. Unfortunately human beings generally suffer from "the intuitive linear view" which masks the rate of exponential change behind a curtain of cloudy disbelief. The ray of sunshine that is inevitability obliterates the darkness and exposes the mind to the full dynamic range of reality. According to a Moore's Law type progression, we will continue to see exponential rates of change in sensor resolution, frame rates, price performance and latitude. Given the time-frame of Epic/Scarlett the reported numbers fall nicely in line Kurzweilianist expectation! Although I am glad that the good folks at Red are the ones who are making it happen.

 

[Thor Melsted]

This progression is not insane at all.

I used the word insane as in "so extremely cool it's crazy."
It's a figure of speech

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

This progression is not insane at all. Red themselves have said that film is not subject to Moore's Law. Indirectly they are referring to themselves, (and electromagnetic capture devices / information technologies) in general, as being subject to "The Law of Accelerating Returns" aka "Kurzweils Law". This means that this kind of progress / price performance is actually very normal and is therefore not insane. Unfortunately human beings generally suffer from "the intuitive linear view" which masks the rate of exponential change behind a curtain of cloudy disbelief. The ray of sunshine that is inevitability obliterates the darkness and exposes the mind to the full dynamic range of reality. According to a Moore's Law type progression, we will continue to see exponential rates of change in sensor resolution, frame rates, price performance and latitude. Given the time-frame of Epic/Scarlett the reported numbers fall nicely in line Kurzweilianist expectation! Although I am glad that the good folks at Red are the ones who are making it happen.

What is insane is the way in which someone with the capabilities and proven entrepreneurial know-how jumped into the digital cinema game. I don't think Kurzweiliani or Moore could have predicted such a splash of modular fulfillment and firmware updates where for so long we have had a morphine drip forced on us by the (now other) giants.

 

[Michael Hastings]

This is an example of why we love RED attitude.

For example, with the Canon 5D. You buy the camera. The hardware could record 25p and 24p video, but the camera don't allow it. Canon it's a cool company and after half and a year asking for... they update te camera. Other companies do not even do that.

Red is always looking for get more and more from its cameras. Working to gave us more and more... Even without ask for it, and always for FREE.

It'll be an honor make bussiness with you... When S-35 Scarlett will released!

Luis:

To be fair, and if I am not mistaken, (and I could be) cameras like the Canons that rely heavily on the ASIC are harder to update because there is limited code space and a limit to the changes you can make since most of the software is hardcoded into the asic. Presumably this will be somewhat true of future RED cameras as well, unlike the current REDONE which is based on an FPGA which is by definition FIELD PROGRAMMABLE which allows you to program an entirely new software set.

That is the downside of using ASIC, the upside is you get faster bootup, lower power consumption, etc. but you also lose a lot of customizability.

 

[Gautam Pinto]

Very True

Very True

Now we have morphine at 120 drops per second!