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Epic Monochrome

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Kyle Raney

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Now that the Epic Monochrome has been available for a while now, has anyone purchased this camera and made enough money to justify it? I'm speaking as a hobbyist interested in buying one, because I love the black and white images.
 
Mine is the primary camera used for a feature, so isn't rentable. I'd think it could be a good rental if you were in a major market (i.e. LA or NY) since I get emails every now and then for people wanting to rent(which again i don't ... lmao ... heading off inquiry emails). Monochrome probably would not be a smart buy if your planning on renting it in a small market. From a hobbyist viewpoint ... I'd think the monochrome would be a awesome camera since it really forces one to focus on the fundamentals and shines with natural lighting. Workflow on the monochrome is trickier then color, so is better for someone that has been involved in the industry and can work around programs that have been designed around color.
 
I would wait and see how the Dragon sensor looks in B&W in terms of sharpness and tonality.
 
PatrickFaith said:
Workflow on the monochrome is trickier then color, so is better for someone that has been involved in the industry and can work around programs that have been designed around color.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, can you explain some of the challenges? In my ignorance I'd have assumed a monochrome image would be easier to work with than colour, mainly working with luma and contrast...
Thanks!
 
Daniel Pearson said:
Out of curiosity, can you explain some of the challenges? In my ignorance I'd have assumed a monochrome image would be easier to work with than colour, mainly working with luma and contrast...
Thanks!
Click to expand...
One thing is that most of the importers don't yet work on monochrome (i.e. nuke,adobe,etc). Next thing is most of the compositing programs run with b/r/g as their base, and don't directly support b/w. For example in nuke i'm often shuffling a "red" channel back to b/g after an operation. most of the keying software uses color keys, with b/w you really need to use geometric z-depth keys and such (which are a lot trickier then color keys). My personal belief is you need to grade in linear, so people that are not use to grading in linear have a bit of a hurdle in that the linear grading modes are usually not as obvious. I prefer the older b/w looks, so that means a bunch of tricky nuke nodes to get the emulsion to feel right.
 
Here in the UK rental alone wouldn't support ownership of a monochrome. We're about the only place to go for rental here and the camera is just busy enough given that we have substantial projects of our own for it.

My favourite bit of gear :)
 
PatrickFaith said:
One thing is that most of the importers don't yet work on monochrome (i.e. nuke,adobe,etc). Next thing is most of the compositing programs run with b/r/g as their base, and don't directly support b/w. For example in nuke i'm often shuffling a "red" channel back to b/g after an operation. most of the keying software uses color keys, with b/w you really need to use geometric z-depth keys and such (which are a lot trickier then color keys). My personal belief is you need to grade in linear, so people that are not use to grading in linear have a bit of a hurdle in that the linear grading modes are usually not as obvious. I prefer the older b/w looks, so that means a bunch of tricky nuke nodes to get the emulsion to feel right.
Click to expand...


That makes total sense, thanks for clearing that up for me Patrick.
 
Sorry Kyle I can't be of help to you since I never rent out my gear, as it is for personal use only.


Bob Gundu said:
I would think this camera is more of a rental item, but I certainly would love to have one. You can save some money and grab Ketch's.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92409-FS-EPIC-X-Monochrome
Click to expand...


Thanks for the Plug Bob, much appreciated!


Bobby Farokhzad said:
I would wait and see how the Dragon sensor looks in B&W in terms of sharpness and tonality.
Click to expand...

Bobby, while the Dragon sensor, will perform much better then the MX sensor, you are still going to go from an RGB acquired image to a B&W, which is not the same as a B&W Acquired image via a Monochromatic sensor without a Filter in front of the sensor, which filters the incoming light thru its channels, so the quality of the image is completely different, but then again, the Monochrome with Dragon sensor will bring the Monochrome sensor again ahed of the curve and far superior to the RGB Dragon sensor.

So you just can't compare a Monochrome sensor to a RGB sensor, very different animals, but Dragon will outperform the MX Monochrome via Lines of both Vertical and Horizontal resolution, but will have the same ISO native @2000 and close Dynamic range and probably in the same lines as far as sharpness, and as I said, upgrade the Epic X Monochrome to the Dragon sensor and then again, Checkmate on the Dragon RGB!!


I love this camera, yet I am selling, but only because I am completely rearranging financials, and selling just about everything I own personally, but as son as the Studios open, then no less then 2 Dragon Monochrome will be purchased by the Company so that we can also do 3D in Monochrome... ;)
 
Ketch, You are correct in everything you say. I think I speak on behalf of many owners/operators when I say that owning such a specialized camera as the Monochrome may not be very practical, regardless of the beautiful image it renders. We haven't seen anything from the Dragon sensor yet, nor do we know for sure that there will be a Dragon Monochrome. To the best of my knowledge I haven't come across such an announcement but given your close ties with Red you might know something we don't. Like you said, a camera without color filters will capture superior black and white images than a camera that has them, there is no argument here. The point I wanted to make was given Red's claims as to the superior dynamic range and hight native iso of the Dragon, It might just be good enough of a camera that for many, the Monochrome will not be needed anymore. Hopefully by next week we will all get a taste of what the Dragon is all about and we will be a little smarter. I wish you the very best in rearranging your financials and I hope you start production on Rape of a beauty real soon.
 
Bobby Farokhzad said:
"We haven't seen anything from the Dragon sensor yet, nor do we know for sure that there will be a Dragon Monochrome."
Click to expand...

Hi Bobby, just for clarification there have been images released from the Dragon Sensor, please check the Recon Section. Also, Jim has stated that there will be a Dragon Sensor for the Monochrome, I asked the question and he answered it. I would get you the links but I am on the set of a Commercial. Bits of information like this can be easily missed, I hope this helps.

Ketch, I would buy your Monochrome in a heartbeat but I am in the middle of some other gear acquisitions... As always I wish you the very best with your sale, may it be quick!

Cheers my friend!

Andrew
 
I did see the images Jarred posted and I even commented on how clean the images were for a 2000 ISO capture. There is however a difference between seeing an image from a camera and getting your hands on it to see what it does. I did not know there will be a Dragon Monochrome, thanks for the clarification Andrew.
 
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