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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-M...

Mike Van Laanen said:
A component machined from aircraft quality aluminum (just a guess) bar stock is exponentially stronger than a cast aluminum part. This is because the molecules in bar stock are all facing one direction. With a cast part the molecules are not lined up, hence less strength, less durability.
Click to expand...

ok, thanks mike! so there might be a difference in material quality, assumed the fact that the material is manufactured the way you described it.

the epic looks like a tank and I don't think the cast parts will be any less durable, but for the gadget lover - I wonder if there are any around here, hehe - this again makes the M a special treat.

of course there is a difference in the way it's manufactured in the first place, because machined parts take more time and "effort" than casting it.
and casting is far more efficient for mass production. so I never wondered why there might be a price difference between the M and the X.
 
Practically... no difference. Technically... the cast parts will be slightly more porous both on the surface and inside, plus the part will include draft for casting which the machined parts do not have. Price difference for manufacture is significant.

Jim
 
thanks jim, for the clarification!
if it's not really that much a hassle in keeping the machined manufacturing line, you really should consider keeping it ;) because as for rental houses, I can then understand why the would choose to go for it, because rentals always have to go through a lot ;)
since I have students renting our university stuff, I know what I'm talking about. hehe!
 
Jannard said:
Practically... no difference. Technically... the cast parts will be slightly more porous both on the surface and inside, plus the part will include draft for casting which the machined parts do not have. Price difference for manufacture is significant.

Jim
Click to expand...

I would love know about the additional costs for machined cameras that are otherwise built on an assembly line if that is possible.

IBloom
 
Jannard said:
Practically... no difference. Technically... the cast parts will be slightly more porous both on the surface and inside, plus the part will include draft for casting which the machined parts do not have. Price difference for manufacture is significant.

Jim
Click to expand...

Funny thing is that on the way back and fourth in our driving to locations and
back, I hold the camera set up and ready to go on My Lap, shooting some
Gorilla style, and I found my self caressing the camera, more then once ha ha,
it just has such a nice texture..LOVE IT!!
 
Hey Jim.

How do you get one of these "M"s
I've left about 20 emails, PM's etc for Kelly, everyone and anyone at RED... but no cigar.

I understand that the little people have to wait because it's in RED's best interest to give these hot rod units to the big boys.
But If I said I was a long long long lost relation to either Jackson, Fincher, Bruckheimer, Soderbergh or Spiderman.... would I have a chance of Que jumping...

Or is it in my best interest to just wait for my EPIC X 158 . (plus 3 more if I can get them)
 
metallurgy explained

metallurgy explained

Mike Van Laanen said:
A component machined from aircraft quality aluminum (just a guess) bar stock is exponentially stronger than a cast aluminum part. This is because the molecules in bar stock are all facing one direction. With a cast part the molecules are not lined up, hence less strength, less durability.
Click to expand...

My day job is material science and know this majourly off topic, but I think it be nice if people know a little bit of science.

What you have describe is a single crystal. Where all the metal atoms line up and there are no defect which would other wise create dislocations in the crystal structure would propagate a crack thought out the crystal structure.

Casting have have very poor mechanical properties due to the columnar grain growth and a centreline weakness where the metal crystal grains have grown together. This is cause by differential cooling (the holy grail of castings is to be able to freeze the entire cast in seconds, at the moment only the flash on the model freezes in seconds and it has amazing quality and the first thing we do is cut it off :emote_headwall: ) and metal shrinkage due to thermal expansion. There are other possible reasons I been taught of, but they are all manufacturing defects.

The machine aluminium has been cast as an ingot, then cold worked (hit with an industrial hammer and folded in on its self) to break up the crystal structure and to build up stresses raising the strength but lowing the ductility. Then it is annealed by being brought up to the recrystallization temperature normally (2/3 the melting temp) to release the energy and allow strain free crystal grains to grow bring back ductility, but reducing the overall strength but it is certainly stronger and more ductile than the ingot. This is pretty standard practice for most a forge metals. You would be able to recognise these stages if you watched a black smith The cold working is where the material is shaped with the hammer and then put back in the fire is the annealing.

The machining then cuts away the metal to the shape required avoiding the problems of achievable expansion, geometric accuracy of casting.

Finally the most important part of aircraft quality aluminium alloy is its copper content. When the aluminium has been machined in to the desired shape it is heated to near the melting temperature to allow the copper atoms to start precipitating out into disks of copper about 2 atoms wide though out the alloy. before the copper forms into a larger separate region the alloy is quenched in water to room temperature and then allow to age harden at room temperature where the dislocation move into optimal position around these copper disks over several day or months depending on the alloy. after this point the copper disks prevent the movement of dislocations though the crystal structure, preventing crack growth and increase the strength and hardness properties of the metal alloy.

Summing it up Aircraft Aluminium is strong yet ductile and yet retains low density!
 
Mark Toia said:
Hey Jim.

How do you get one of these "M"s
I've left about 20 emails, PM's etc for Kelly, everyone and anyone at RED... but no cigar.

I understand that the little people have to wait because it's in RED's best interest to give these hot rod units to the big boys.
But If I said I was a long long long lost relation to either Jackson, Fincher, Bruckheimer, Soderbergh or Spiderman.... would I have a chance of Que jumping...

Or is it in my best interest to just wait for my EPIC X 158 . (plus 3 more if I can get them)
Click to expand...


Hi Mark,

There is not yet a final list of customers who will be receiving Epic M. As soon as we have one, I will be sending out an email to everyone that has emailed me saying they were interested in the program. Secondly, I don't have any unread/un-replied emails or PM's from you. I got one email from you back in November and that is when I added you to the list... so rest assured, you are on the list of customers interested in Epic M :-)

Thanks,
Kelly
 
:smiley:
Kelly said:
Hi Mark,

There is not yet a final list of customers who will be receiving Epic M. As soon as we have one, I will be sending out an email to everyone that has emailed me saying they were interested in the program. Secondly, I don't have any unread/un-replied emails or PM's from you. I got one email from you back in November and that is when I added you to the list... so rest assured, you are on the list of customers interested in Epic M :-)

Thanks,
Kelly
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update Kelly!!
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
is epic-x that far away that everybody wants an Epic M?
did i miss something?, or is it usual reduser panic :)
Click to expand...

I think it's usual reduser panic, but it's combined with a desire to be part of history.

People seem to feel emotionally that an EPIC-M will be a true collector's item, with its hand machined finishes and so on. And they know that when people see them in the field, they are seeing someone or at least hiring a rental house who is a real pioneer.

And to get red screws. You can't forget the red screws.

D
 
David Dennis said:
.... it's combined with a desire to be part of history.

People seem to feel emotionally that an EPIC-M will be a true collector's item, with its hand machined finishes and so on. And they know that when people see them in the field, they are seeing someone or at least hiring a rental house who is a real pioneer.

D
Click to expand...

:iagree:

...and I'm ready to do it all over again!! :driving:
 
the red screws ... lovelly
 
Kelly said:
Hi Mark,

There is not yet a final list of customers who will be receiving Epic M. As soon as we have one, I will be sending out an email to everyone that has emailed me saying they were interested in the program. Secondly, I don't have any unread/un-replied emails or PM's from you. I got one email from you back in November and that is when I added you to the list... so rest assured, you are on the list of customers interested in Epic M :-)

Thanks,
Kelly
Click to expand...

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
Kelly you rock! No seriously!

Yes sent quite a few emails to you. Not sure why only one got there..
But thats all I need, just one!
and 4 standard EPICS please.

Love ya work! :thumbsup:
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
is epic-x that far away that everybody wants an Epic M?
did i miss something?, or is it usual reduser panic :)
Click to expand...

History shows that RED cameras dribble out of the manufacturing like snails on valium... took me almost a year to get my second RED ONE camera. Even longer for the EVF's.. not to mention the 7"PRO LCD's.
So not unless something has significantly changed with there manufacturing arm of late, I dare say the EPIC will move out as slow if not slower than there BOMB evf's..

If I can get an EPIC "M" for at least this year, I'd be a very happy boy, because larger numbered EPICS most certainly won't be delivered in the next few months.
So yes, Not so much RED USER panic.. but more consumer impatience.

Mind you.. ALL that said I respect what RED has achieved and what they have to do to tool up. I'm just so hoping to be proved wrong, because I'm stalling my film until I get 4 EPICS in my hot little hands.

It's the camera of the century and it will be the camera that I will finish my career on. As far as I'm concerned, there is no shame in being overly keen on having one. :)
 
well, the way i see it
patience = more money to spend on RED product , )
 
There is a meltdown in the high tech manufacturing sector right now, due to issues n China. This affects everyone, not just Red, but Apple too and many others.
 
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