Epic-M vs Epic-X

[Mike Halper]

I'm considering purchasing an Epic-M. As someone who doesn't own a RED ONE I assume I'd have to wait at least a few months, and likely until after the new year when the prices go up, to be able to purchase an Epic-X. So not taking into account the price difference and availability, what are the differences between the Epic-M and Epic-X? I know the M is machined and the X is off a production line. Will they accept the exact same accessories, be upgradeable the same way, same warranty, etc. etc.? Basically is there any reason to get one over the other besides saving money or getting it sooner rather than later?

Also, will Epic-M still be available for purchase after Epic-X starts shipping?

 

[Michael Mayda]

M = X = M. They are exactly the same in performance and accessories. Get an M now if you need it and can afford it. Otherwise wait. In this case, money truly equals time...

Mike

 

[Justin Marx]

They should be nearly identical except for possibly something cosmetic in the manufacturing.
This is what I have been told, but to get the proper answer you should really hear it from the person that's taking your money..
RED is too smart to burn people that adopt early..

-- Justin

 

[Mike Halper]

Yeah, I'd be surprised and am assured my confidence in Red is right with them upgrading the heatsinks on them, and with how they've treated owners in the past. I just wanted to be sure. Will the X also have a 2 year warranty or is that special for the M because it's machined and assembled by hand?

And I guess the real question is when will they reach Stage 4 so that I as a RED ONE non-owner can buy one?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Yeah, I'd be surprised and am assured my confidence in Red is right with them upgrading the heatsinks on them, and with how they've treated owners in the past. I just wanted to be sure. Will the X also have a 2 year warranty or is that special for the M because it's machined and assembled by hand?

And I guess the real question is when will they reach Stage 4 so that I as a RED ONE non-owner can buy one?

The M has a 2 year warranty but I believe (could be wrong) that the X will have a 1 year.

 

[Justin Marx]

M is the only one with the 2 year warranty.. I'd have to agree with Michael, if you need it now and can afford it, consider it.

 

[conrad gaunt]

Well if the original specs are anything to go by, the X has a "select"? sensor, and a slightly higher maximum recording rate over the non-X cameras.. but I bet they've all got "Select" sensors now lol

.. oh, and you can't buy an X camera off the shelf if you don't own a red.. but maybe you can now if you call it an "M".

Everything subject to change etc.. including your age

 

[Mike Halper]

Acually you can buy an X "off the shelf" without owning a RED ONE in Stage 4. Maybe someone can clarify on the sensor part. I never heard of a "select" sensor or difference in recording rate. Maybe an actual RED rep can comment on this and clarify any possible differences. I think it's important to know.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Well if the original specs are anything to go by

They aren't. As you've said, things have changed.

the X has a "select"? sensor,

The Epic-X has the same sensor as the -M and the -S. And current M-X RED ONEs. That would be the "S35 Mysterium-X" sensor.

and a slightly higher maximum recording rate over the non-X cameras

The Epic-X and the Epic-M will have the same frame rates. The only hardware/software difference is the fact that one is machined.

The Epic-S is expected to have constrained framerate and compression options in comparison due to less capable electronics. This difference will be compensated for by a lower price.

oh, and you can't buy an X camera off the shelf if you don't own a red.. but maybe you can now if you call it an "M".

The Epic-X will be sold, first to current RED owners who meet the criteria and opted in appropriately, but then to everyone else. This is RED's way of thanking early adopters of an - at the time - unproven camera.
The Epic-M is currently available and is "shipping now".
The Epic-S will be sold at some point after Epic-X ships. Priority to be announced.

I apologize if any of the above is incorrect.

 

[conrad gaunt]

They aren't. As you've said, things have changed.
The Epic-X has the same sensor as the -M and the -S. And current M-X RED ONEs. That would be the "S35 Mysterium-X" sensor.

Sure, but the original specs. implied they might have gone through a different quality control process. They aren't all identical you know?

Epic-X and the Epic-M will have the same frame rates. The only hardware/software difference is the fact that one is machined.

Again, the original specs suggested a difference. Afterall, not all chips get through QC with the same end status..

The Epic-X will be sold, first to current RED owners who meet the criteria and opted in appropriately, but then to everyone else. This is RED's way of thanking early adopters of an - at the time - unproven camera.

If "M"s are identical to "X"s, they haven't stuck to that policy?

 

[Michael Olsen]

Sure, but the original specs. implied they might have gone through a different quality control process.

First, I don't know that the original specs should or can be relied upon for anything so specific. Everything was still REDCODE numbers, not ratios. Tattoo was to start by the end of 2009. CF and RED RAM were considered as major components of the media kit. 5K only went to 100fps, not 120fps. 2K to 250fps, not 300fps. There was no HDRx. The brain weighed 6lbs, now it weighs 4lbs. There was still an S35 Scarlet, and no Epic-S. Epic-M hadn't even been discussed. RED Dragon was, I imagine, mostly hushed discussion. So very much has changed since then.

Sure, there are discrepancies between any products, even above QC pass level. But unless I'm mistaken, which I very well may be, this idea that the "better chips" will be weeded out selectively and put in some cameras for some people hasn't ever been corroborated since that original spec sheet was put out. Some searching around seem to follow in that thought - I can't find anywhere that anyone from RED has said:

"Yes, we are going to take all of the chips, put them through a selective QC process, and give the better portion to current RED ONE owners. Everyone else gets whatever's left."​

If they had, I should certainly like to know.

If "M"s are identical to "X"s, they haven't stuck to that policy?

Sure they have. Current RED owners are still on the top of the list for Epic-X's. That has been entirely untouched. Except that now they will be receiving additional items as standard, and have the knowledge that they will be getting their cameras at a fixed lower price instead of at a projected price increase occurring next year.

And they were all given the option to purchase an Epic-M as well, with select users (almost entirely either massively famous filmmakers or current owners) receiving preference.
If anything, given the Tsunami, RED has only given current owners additional preferential options - they don't have to wait for the product they were going to buy to come out but could buy one now. Instead, RED decided to manufacture a new product, previously unmentioned, to help get cameras into their customers hands.