Epic in camera filter assembly

[JonathanF]

I agree about the backfocus being on the sensor. This also allows for a uniform mounting system for a greater variety of mounts, I would think.

First, I have NEVER, EVER seen a mount changed on a camera mid production. If it was necessary for some esoteric piece of glass for one shot, a special camera was brought in. Rentals just aren't that big of a deal in this situation.

How solid you think this is going to be on say a camera car vibrating around all day, or let's consider heli work?

The mounts in use by Arri and Panavision are the way they are for a VERY good reason. Maybe it can be reinvented and made better, but it's not something I typically ever worry about when I use their cameras. So why bother.

With the R1 IT IS something we have to worry about and that is something I have found troubling.

The aftermarket will be thick with options for people shooting with a variety of lenses if the new design is as described so please make the mount and sensor stage that ships with the camera as relaible and stable as can be. P+S already has a great option for people who need this capability and the next gen of that mount will likely be even better.

Let's keep the standard PL mount simple and reliable.

PS - I know this belongs over in the mount discussion, but Rod brought it up

 

[Scott Brown]

100% for built in ND's on the fixed lens + 2/3 Scarlet models. These are really going to be used in TV documentary run and gun situations where manually adding/removing ND's via a matte box is not really practical.

Jim, PLEASE consider this...it will make Scarlet a Sony/Panny :tongue: killer

Scott

 

[Nick Gardner]

These are really going to be used in TV documentary run and gun situations where manually adding/removing ND's via a matte box is not really practical.

Just out of curiosity why isn't this practical? I've done it on dozens of documentaries and so did every one else. I can see not having the time to do it on reality TV, but docs are not reality TV.

Just saying.......

Nick

 

[JonathanF]

PLEASE don't do this on Epic.

Scarlet fixed lens, sure, Epic, no way.

If you use filters behind the lenses then you are always going to have to always keep one in there even if it's just a clear because they increase the flanged focal depth optically by one third the thickness of the filter.

This is way to much of an error with high speed lenses and this is amplified as the focal length decreases.

:J

 

[JonathanF]

Just out of curiosity why isn't this practical? I've done it on dozens of documentaries and so did every one else. I can see not having the time to do it on reality TV, but docs are not reality TV.

Just saying.......

Nick

Thank you Nick. I didn't want to bring up the fact that we're using an MB14 and an MB5 on our current Doc now (depending on the situation) and we haven't had a single issue swapping out filters in the matte box.

:J

 

[Are Pilskog]

Just out of curiosity why isn't this practical?

At least when shooting wildlife through a camuflage, it would be nice to have internal ND filters.

I also think it would be faster/easier for a one man doc team. There is a lot of doc filmmakers out there that would find it troublesome to use external filters.
And this is a large marked Red!

So... my vote also goes for internal filters. Maybe it would be possbile to have an optionally filter module?

 

[JonathanF]

At least when shooting wildlife through a camuflage, it would be nice to have internal ND filters.

I also think it would be faster/easier for a one man doc team. There is a lot of doc filmmakers out there that would find it troublesome to use external filters.

I think there are a lot of "videographers" out there that find it troublesome, but think there are a lot of fimmakers out there that understand the technical reasons for not putting extra glass between the rear element of their $20,000 primes and the sensor that would disagree with you.

Docs are the core of our business but we grew up on film cameras and after talking to 4 other DoP's on this very issue today, many of whom we work with often, not one of them wants this feature. Every one of them said they would not want a camera with integral filtration and would rip it out if it was possible. Most of them came from film, not video backgrounds so that may explain things.

Either way, how would you envision this working, we're going to have a drop in set of lenses in the brain? How do you keep dust out of it?

If it's not drop in but integral, how would you clean them? Imagine a high humidity environment where you're filming from a vehicle on a dirt road. You change lenses... dust IS going to get in there.

How about situations where you are going between temp changes where the cold and warm temps are on either side of the dew point?

If you make it self contained to avoid all those issues what will you do for people who want nothing between their Master Primes and the sensor?

It's pretty small item on a 1/2 or 1/3 inch sensor, but on a ff35 of s35 sensor we're talking about a lot of glass. Are they stacked? If so how would you deal with the increase in the flanged focal depth? If not, how are you going to fit 3 (or 4 with a clear) independent pieces of glass in there?

Finally, will these filters be robust enough to withstand periodic blasts with compressed air when blowing out the sensor?

What do you do in the field if one of them is damaged?

It all sounds nice and convenient now, but there's a reason you don't have them on Arri or Panavision cameras. You may want to go down and ask one of their technicians why it's a bad idea. Perhaps they can convince you.

:J

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

In camera filters on an Epic? Seriously? Cmon.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

worst idea ever

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

worst idea ever

I hate to be over-bearing but, yes, I very much so agree.

Why add additional weight?

Why add moving parts?

Why not give people the option of choosing which ND's they use?

Just buy a clip on if it's that much of a hassle.

In Scarlet's case, there's the Tiffen still camera clip-on tray also, or a tiny clip-on MB.

 

[Birns and Sawyer]

IFinally, will these filters be robust enough to withstand periodic blasts with compressed air when blowing out the sensor?

Sorry, I couldn't help since this alarmed me slightly. You shouldn't be spraying any compressed air onto the sensor. You could use a small air-puffer to try to loosen any dust, but compressed air can cause much more damage to anything optical than it would potentially clean it.