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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC HDR...

Lee Fingersh said:
When someone made the same claim elsewhere, I decided to average each 8-bit-compressed bar and measure them in Photoshop. Here's the result:

245
221
201
186
171
155
143
122
100
84
70
56
50
42
34
29
26
24

Yes, they get pretty flat at the low end. But so what? It's called a tone curve, and it can be pretty arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Did you plot it? :)
 
The trick is to capture the 18 stops and then deliver it at 8 or 10 bit. How that happens is subject to interpretation. Capturing it is the biggest trick.

Jim
 
Jim, do you do these DR tests linear or do you apply some curve on them to bring them when you bring them down into those bit depths? (although I should say, post adjusting them for different wavelength sensitivities of the sensor).
 
The question begs to be asked... have you ever seen 18 stops anywhere else for reference?

Jim
 
Jannard said:
The question begs to be asked... have you ever seen 18 stops anywhere else for reference?

Jim
Click to expand...

Actually, I wasn't comparing it to anything, I was just curious as to what my eyes saw and how the values graphed out. I was curious how linear it was, which it clearly isn't. :) Not that it means anything though. Purely scientific curiosity on my part.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Actually, I wasn't comparing it to anything, I was just curious as to what my eyes saw and how the values graphed out. I was curious how linear it was, which it clearly isn't. :) Not that it means anything though. Purely scientific curiosity on my part.
Click to expand...

Truth of the matter is that NOTHING is truly linear in this industry...

Jim
 
jonnycom said:
I wonder how many stops we captured here?
http://vimeo.com/12828140
How do you get the DR chart that everyone is talking about?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter how many stops. What matters is that you only need one Epic to do this. Plus... you get "Magic Motion" at no extra charge!

Jim
 
Yea one small Epic is awesome. Our HDR is a bitch......I can't wait to try it with those kids under that gazebo at high noon with that ball flying around.
 
Just to compare EPIC HDRx 18 stops DR with Alexa about 15 stops DR:

attachment.php

EPIC HDRx plot with 18 DR stops by John Beale >>>

Alexa_DR_800a.jpg

Alexa @ 800 ISO with DR 15 tops tested by Art Adams @ PVC >>>
 
The proof is in the pudding. i saw the pudding. Even Cosby would be smiling. Fucking awesome pudding.
 
Jannard said:
The trick is to capture the 18 stops and then deliver it at 8 or 10 bit. How that happens is subject to interpretation. Capturing it is the biggest trick.

Jim
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any display out there capable of showing 18 stops of DR, so HDR would have almost no practical use if couldn't appreciate it in the reduced-bit world we live in.

I agree capture is the biggest trick, but being capable of delivering at 8 or 10 bit doesn't seem a minor question to me.

Well done, Jim. And thanks for your consideration to the forum once again!
 
Jordi Figueras said:
I don't think there is any display out there capable of showing 18 stops of DR, so HDR would have almost no practical use if couldn't appreciate it in the reduced-bit world we live in.

I agree capture is the biggest trick, but being capable of delivering at 8 or 10 bit doesn't seem a minor question to me.

Well done, Jim. And thanks for your consideration to the forum once again!
Click to expand...

Even if there was a display capable of 18 stops why you would even try to use it?

Human eye can differentiate in any moment only 6 stops or so without pupil adjustment.

It is like saying why do you need wide zoom of 190 deg if most big screens are viewed at 90 to 120 deg(IMAX) viewing angle.

One can go to 360 deg cinema and turn his head around but his angle of view will be 120 deg max anyway.
Same thing here you can have 18 stops of data and theoretically see all of it in sequence by adjusting the brightness of the screen.

It is not the need to see 18 stops all the time but the need to have it there and use it wisely in post to show more and better.

It is not the delivered size of the DR range that does matter, it is how you use it:)

I have heard that the best delivered DR is 7 to 7 1/2 ....stops..

Andrew
 
Andrew said:
Even if there was a display capable of 18 stops why you would even try to use it?

Human eye can differentiate in any moment only 6 stops or so without pupil adjustment.

It is like saying why do you need wide zoom of 190 deg if most big screens are viewed at 90 to 120 deg(IMAX) viewing angle.

One can go to 360 deg cinema and turn his head around but his angle of view will be 120 deg max anyway.
Same thing here you can have 18 stops of data and theoretically see all of it in sequence by adjusting the brightness of the screen.

It is not the need to see 18 stops all the time but the need to have it there and use it wisely in post to show more and better.

It is not the delivered size of the DR range that does matter, it is how you use it:)

I have heard that the best delivered DR is 7 to 7 1/2 ....stops..

Andrew
Click to expand...

I think I didn't make my point quite well, Andrew.

In fact you said what I was thinking. What I really meant in my previous post was that I think it's amazing to have all that information to work with. Then, in post, you can play and deliver the image you want. I just tried not to diminish another great accomplishment from RED, it is, to make that HDR practical from the beginning to everyone, and not having to go to a hi-end monitor or something like that.
Imagine trying to explain to a client moving the monitor brightness up and down that what he or she is really seeing is just a fraction of what you are getting... it sure will be weird.

Cheers!
 
Jordi Figueras said:
I think I didn't make my point quite well, Andrew.

In fact you said what I was thinking. What I really meant in my previous post was that I think it's amazing to have all that information to work with. Then, in post, you can play and deliver the image you want. I just tried not to diminish another great accomplishment from RED, it is, to make that HDR practical from the beginning to everyone, and not having to go to a hi-end monitor or something like that.
Imagine trying to explain to a client moving the monitor brightness up and down that what he or she is really seeing is just a fraction of what you are getting... it sure will be weird.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

This would be really weird, indeed.

What I do with HDR, I hate the tone mapping as it is used in HDR, instead I create 7 stops sliding window and scan the whole HDR values with this window.
It is like flipping very fast the 3 HDR pictures taken with +2 -2 bracketing with that exception that you see it changing smoothly in continuous mode rather than jumping between 3 differently exposed shots.

Next I define the area that I would like to show in the picture frame even if these areas are coming from the different parts of picture. Next it is just tone mapping if I am lucky or manipulation of areas or second color correction.

I like just to show what our eyes would never see unless we will put sunglasses on or use night vision.

We normally do not see alcove details in a dark church if we stand inside the church in noon sun rays coming through the church window.
We don’t see reflection of other windows reflections in the building window during the bright day.

We don’t see air currents on clear blue sky, etc
And we can show all these if we have extra DR that normally you can’t capture or normally your eyes can’t see it.
 
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