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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC Dynamic Range...

I'm still waiting for a RED module with an ethernet port. Lots of situations where you can just stream out to whatever size raid array (or multiple) you want.

Add in some remote camera control and you've just opened up a new dimension.
 
Joel Jameson said:
I'm still waiting for a RED module with an ethernet port. Lots of situations where you can just stream out to whatever size raid array (or multiple) you want.

Add in some remote camera control and you've just opened up a new dimension.
Click to expand...

No module necessary.
Gigabit ethernet is on the brain.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Thank you Sub. Yea, I wouldn't know what might take it but I figured it is just a matter of time for them to earn them one. Perhaps everything everyone ever wanted put together into one camera could do the trick?

So 2.5:1 is the compression ratio, perhaps not so aggressive because of storage being so big and so that cheaper gear can deconstruct it?

What is the size of 12-bit RAW at 5k? Please, someone, I just want to know how big the files will be. How does this go? 12 bytes x resolution? Can't be that simple...
Click to expand...


roughly (not counting any padding or header info included per frame):

uncompressed size per second:

size in bits = (number of pixels * 12) * frame rate ..its a greyscale bayer pattern remember

size in bytes = size in bits / 8

compressed at 2.5:1 :

one of the above calculations / 2.5



You can probably beat that compression ratio significantly if you load two 16bit bayer pattern layers into a PNG using arith. encoding, but although decompression speed is pretty good, compression is SLOW.
 
ronx said:
roughly (not counting any padding or header info included per frame):

uncompressed size per second:

size in bits = (number of pixels * 12) * frame rate ..its a greyscale bayer pattern remember

size in bytes = size in bits / 8

compressed at 2.5:1 :

one of the above calculations / 2.5
Click to expand...

Funny... this is exactly how I thought it might be. It just seemed too simple.



ronx said:
You can probably beat that compression ratio significantly if you load two 16bit bayer pattern layers into a PNG using arith. encoding, but although decompression speed is pretty good, compression is SLOW.
Click to expand...

Not a clue what you just said here though, hahaha... t'sall good though. You guys gave me my answers. Thanks, thanks, thanks.

Now all that's left to do is wait for the RED team to share the goodies, the answers to questions such as:
a. max frame rate for math-lossless
b. hardware acceleration vs. CPU based decompression (and which for RT)
c. was this #21 or should we remain at the edge of our seats till NAB
d. does RED secretly rule the world yet
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
Deanan, that is industry standard SATA interface on 1,8" disk?

Or a propriety interface?
Click to expand...

I'd guess that it wouldn't be a standard sata connector - those connectors (and the power connectors SATA drives use as well) are really not at all durable. I've broken a couple on my computers after only a few mating cycles, (but mostly the cables thankfully).
 
David Battistella said:
It will be impossible to get people in this indusrty to heed that excellent advice. Most folks will think they have to shoot everything at the highest quality all the time.

David
Click to expand...

They'll heed it when they see the difference in price.
 
What does this mean?

What does this mean?

Jim mentioned this over at cinematography.com

"One clarification... with EPIC you can have an ISO 25-250 brain or an ISO 200-2000 brain. These aren't different brains... it is a quick mod to the same brain. Like loading different film stocks."

Is this just a reference to using differend hight quality ND filters, or did I miss something?

Just asking, I hope I do not create confusion here. Thx.

Th:)mmes
 
Deanan said:
Backend is REDstation but it's important to remember that choosing the right REDcode rate for the right situations is key to a sensible workflow.

There's going to be a tendency to want to shoot at the highest redcode when a lower redcode is more valid and sensible.
Click to expand...

The much-used cliche "horses for courses" applies here. That phrase, and others like it, are regularly used to describe using common sense in productions to select the most logical equipment for the work which needs to be done. It follows that the "horses for courses" analogy should also completely apply to the logic of selecting a Redcode rate for a project - or portion thereof. A wide selection of Redcode rates will effectively unleash the true flexibility and utility of Epic. That makes great sense to me...

Unfortunately as you allude to, in some portions of the motion media production community "common sense" really isn't that common, thus it should be termed "uncommon sense" :)

An uncommon sense approach for field use of Epic will be to select the Redcode rate best suited to the project at hand, keeping in mind also what the highest and best future use of the footage will be in a library and stock footage scenario - in essence future-proofing the footage - but not going overboard in Redcode rate with no logical reason for doing so.

Thanks Red Team for unlocking the utilitarian potential of these new M-X sensor cameras by enabling a wide range of Redcode rates - another good example of your uncommon sense approach to building cameras!
 
Some nice guidelines at some point might help people to know what the downfalls of the large compressions so they know where they need more and where they don't. If I were to think of doing a shoot, I can certainly see where people are going to pick as lossless as possible because they aren't sure where the compression breaks down.

You can test all day, but it's hard to cover EVERY situation to know what you should be looking for.
 
Lossless compression scales inversely with increases of spatial and temporal complexity. That is, your compression ratio will be worse as the level of detail rises. Keep that in mind when selecting a REDCODE rate. If you're shooting a clean greensceen/bluescreen, you can probably get away with a lower bit rate.
 
I guess I am a bit confused on some of the terminology here.

If a compression is lossless, than why would you ever choose any different than the highest lossless compression ratio IF even in the worst circumstance the processor in the brain can handle the compression? (I could see if decompression is a later issue, but most algorithms are heavy on the encode). Like a zip file on a computer, I always want the highest compression I can get.

However, my previous question is on lossy compression. What I don't understand is what the situations would be where I'd use the lower compression compared to the higher compressions available. I've not enough knowledge of wavelet compression to know when the image will take a hit. Clearly there is something that has to be different or there would be no reason to run at a lower compression ratio. This is the kind of information someone would need to know to make that trade-off decision.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I'd guess that it wouldn't be a standard sata connector - those connectors (and the power connectors SATA drives use as well) are really not at all durable. I've broken a couple on my computers after only a few mating cycles, (but mostly the cables thankfully).
Click to expand...
No kidding. I had to move a 120GB SSD drive from one PC to another, popped the case and removed the SATA cable from the drive... and the small plastic guide on the drive broke off with the cable. And can you attach the cable without that tiny little plastic piece? No, you can't. The $450 drive was rendered totally useless by the snapping off of that tiny piece of plastic! To add insult to injury, manufacturer's warranty does not cover physical damage, so they won't replace the drive either.
 
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