Epic Dragon shutter stops working - 10K repair bill

[Robino_J]

Two weeks ago for reasons unknown to me or RED, the shutter on my RED DRAGON camera stopped responding. Everything else on the camera work as normal, record, playback, changing settings, formatting mini-mag etc - everything is normal except that if I change the shutter speed nothing happens - it looks like the shutter is stuck at a lower speed like 1/15th or so.

I Sent the camera to RED to be checked and got a 10K+ repair bill to replace the sensor board. After replying to the quote, RED waved the $250 service charge which is appreciated but still way out my budget.

Unfortunately for me, it looks like it might be the end of my RED journey (started with a Scarlet X, upgraded to Epic X and then to Dragon) since I cannot afford and justify the repair cost. I was definitely not expecting a small repair bill but 10K for a PCB truly exceeded my worst fears especially that the current resell value for a Dragon brain on eBay is around 10K.

I would have thought that a board could be “repaired” or even replaced with an old one possibly sourced from all the Epic Dragon upgrades but unfortunately it has to be a brand new PCB.

How much do you think a broken Epic Dragon brain with a defective sensor board value is? Is this even something that anyone would buy? Maybe as a sensor insurance since a sensor replacement is around 10K as well.

I would advise anyone with a RED camera without Red Armor or if their cameras are past the warranty period to buy insurance for your camera now. Unfortunate events like this could end your RED journey.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Ouch! Looks like they need to replace the actual sensor. Will your normal insurance cover it?

 

[Robino_J]

Ouch! Looks like they need to replace the actual sensor. Will your normal insurance cover it?

Believe it or not - the sensor is perfectly fine. The quote is for the sensor board (PCB).

The insurance is looking into it but it's looking grim.

 

[Dominik Muench]

The insurance is looking into it but it's looking grim.

Not that its helping you right now but this is why its important to get a watertight insurance policy that covers anything and everything to do with your gear, from the very first day you own the equipment.
A decent insurance company should have no problems with hardware claims relating to your gear.
All the best and hopefully you can get it sorted without having to break the bank.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I wonder if it might be possible to buy a low-cost broken Red Dragon where at least the shutter board is working, and then you could do a transplant. This is basically how you keep 1950s/1960s cars running: buy wrecks and cannibalize parts.

It is unfortunate when the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the component. This happens in other industries as well.

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Not that its helping you right now but this is why its important to get a watertight insurance policy that covers anything and everything to do with your gear, from the very first day you own the equipment.
A decent insurance company should have no problems with hardware claims relating to your gear.
All the best and hopefully you can get it sorted without having to break the bank.

I don't know of any insurance companies that cover wear and tear or maintenance. I can't image how that company would make money, given that every piece of equipment gives out at some point.

 

[Robino_J]

Ok so it's confirmed - insurance is a no go.

 

[Audy Erel]

What could possibly be the root cause of this shutter problem? Does electronic shutter also suffer from wear and tear like its mechanical counterpart?? If so, maybe we should keep using lowest shutter speed possible to prolong its life! Hmm.. :/

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Not that its helping you right now but this is why its important to get a watertight insurance policy that covers anything and everything to do with your gear, from the very first day you own the equipment.
A decent insurance company should have no problems with hardware claims relating to your gear.
All the best and hopefully you can get it sorted without having to break the bank.

I think the name of such insurance is called RED ARMOR. If you don't have that, you are self-insured when something goes wrong inside your electronics.

 

[Andy White]

Red Armor can only run for so long (on a single camera).

I have an Epic Dragon that was upgraded from my original Epic X, that had Red Armor and, once the upgrade was done (and I'd purchased the 1 year upgrade armor), I was told by my Rep (and she did double check), that I could no longer add any more Armor.

Despite being willing to purchase more Red Armou, I couldn't, as there simply wasn't any way Red could add it.

So, I had Epic X plus Red Amour (3 years total) then Epic Dragon Upgrade Armor (that added another year) - and then it was EOL for being able to purchase Red Armor.

I'd presume, if you keep rolling in the program and upgrading to each new sensor then camera (ie to the older Weapon original body then to new body and new sensor etc) that you can just keep adding upgrade/new unit Armor as you go, but for those sticking at a certain point (in my case, Epic Dragon), the Red Armor option isn't there.

 

[Owen Rennie]

I run a tree removal company, shit breaks, repairs costs too much, employees want more money, people under quote etc etc. but it's business, if it was easy everyone would do it.

Bite your tongue, get a loan, do whatever you gotta do, fix or replace your camera and get out there and work hard and put money away for rainy days like this!

Good luck

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Red Armor can only run for so long (on a single camera).

I have an Epic Dragon that was upgraded from my original Epic X, that had Red Armor and, once the upgrade was done (and I'd purchased the 1 year upgrade armor), I was told by my Rep (and she did double check), that I could no longer add any more Armor.

Despite being willing to purchase more Red Armou, I couldn't, as there simply wasn't any way Red could add it.

So, I had Epic X plus Red Amour (3 years total) then Epic Dragon Upgrade Armor (that added another year) - and then it was EOL for being able to purchase Red Armor.

I'd presume, if you keep rolling in the program and upgrading to each new sensor then camera (ie to the older Weapon original body then to new body and new sensor etc) that you can just keep adding upgrade/new unit Armor as you go, but for those sticking at a certain point (in my case, Epic Dragon), the Red Armor option isn't there.

Actually, you bring up a good point. And Brent...I hope you are listening! I purchased a VV upgrade for my Woven CF. And I put down deposits on 2x W-Mg -> Helium S35 upgrades. If these upgrades went through today, I'd (barely) be covered by the Red Armor I purchased. Given how long the upgrades are taking, the warranty window is opening up such that when I finally do send in my cameras for the upgrades, they might be out of warranty. And if there were a problem with the boards I'd be liable for a hefty extra cost that might have been covered by my warranty had the upgrade been more timely. So my request is this: when an upgrade is purchased when Red Armor is in force, and when purchased with continuing Red Armor, the Armor protection should be treated as continuous, even if there is a 2+ year gap caused by delays in the upgrade process. That would be one way of making us more whole when we have tens of thousands of dollars sitting on RED's side of the ledger and through no fault of our own, our cameras age out of coverage that we bought.

I realize that this may not help in your specific circumstance, but for many of us, it would be some comfort.

 

[Robino_J]

I run a tree removal company, shit breaks, repairs costs too much, employees want more money, people under quote etc etc. but it's business, if it was easy everyone would do it.

Bite your tongue, get a loan, do whatever you gotta do, fix or replace your camera and get out there and work hard and put money away for rainy days like this!

Good luck

Let's say I decide to repair the camera for 10K, I will only have 90 days of warranty and then god forbid if this happens again (I have no clue what initially could have caused the shutter to stop responding and RED Support did not figure out why either) then I’m going to be down 20K, and that's for an Epic Dragon - not a Weapon body.

I always took great care of my camera, never rented it - it’s my personal camera that I use for my own projects.

Selling the defective body and all my accessories will not help much either since the market price for a working dragon brain on eBay is around 10K and full packages go for 15K -

I would love to keep my camera and I hate the thought of losing it but 10K for a PCB replacement is extremely hard to justify.

Upgrading to a Weapon in my case was 14K - now it is 24K.

Which makes me wonder, what if I found a defective EPIC Dragon body - could RED use the PCB from that camera to fix my camera? I have a feeling RED would not even allow that, would be good to know so I can weigh in other options.

 

[Doug Laurent]

I would buy a GH5 with V-Log. Clients might not see a difference in the end result. If a Red camera needs to be seen on set, bring the defect Dragon along with the GH5.

 

[Andy White]

I would buy a GH5 with V-Log. Clients might not see a difference in the end result. If a Red camera needs to be seen on set, bring the defect Dragon along with the GH5.

I'm considering the GH5 as a back up camera for my Dragon... easy to add lens adapters (for PL/OCT-19 etc) and the 4:3 mode looks interesting.

A shame that Armor isn't able to be an ongoing option from Red, I'd certainly use it.

 

[M.Halsell]

Perhaps RED at some future date can see themselves offering extended warranty options similar to the camera group in Munich Germany. To the OP, the pain is felt - $10K is nothing to sneeze at. Out of warranty repairs on RED equipment are one the hidden costs of owner/operator. Before your post you probably had a good idea what your next move will be. Anyways, thank you posting your experience as it encourages us all to bill jobs accordingly for unexpected (expensive) events such as this. If you are able to make it past the repair bill, having a solid working camera kit again which will still give you some marbles to play with.

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

I'm not saying that this is the best route, nor assuming you want to, but can't you upgrade through the Red Owner Pricing? Can't you swap out your Epic Dragon for another cam, even if it's not working? I feel like I saw this somewhere but I'm honestly not sure if it's the case. Might be worth a quick ring to a BS Rep.

 

[Andy White]

I'm not saying that this is the best route, nor assuming you want to, but can't you upgrade through the Red Owner Pricing? Can't you swap out your Epic Dragon for another cam, even if it's not working? I feel like I saw this somewhere but I'm honestly not sure if it's the case. Might be worth a quick ring to a BS Rep.

I think (I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong!), that the camera you put into upgrade needs to be fully functional for you to do that.

I know people were caught out with 'surprise' repairs when their fully functional (to them) Epics were sent in, and various things like soundboards or HDMI/SDI ports were diagnosed as being nonfunctional. So these had to be cleared first, before upgrades could happen.

No idea of how it'll work with a new body upgrade, but I'd assume Red would still want a functional body as part of the deal. If not, that might be an option.

Maybe Red could start a special upgrade plan/scheme for cases like Robino (and maybe me, LOL!) that would allow for this

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

I think (I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong!), that the camera you put into upgrade needs to be fully functional for you to do that.

I know people were caught out with 'surprise' repairs when their fully functional (to them) Epics were sent in, and various things like soundboards or HDMI/SDI ports were diagnosed as being nonfunctional. So these had to be cleared first, before upgrades could happen.

No idea of how it'll work with a new body upgrade, but I'd assume Red would still want a functional body as part of the deal. If not, that might be an option.

Maybe Red could start a special upgrade plan/scheme for cases like Robino (and maybe me, LOL!) that would allow for this

That totally makes sense. I know when upgrading within the same body things would definitely need to be working, but this program is called Red Owner Pricing and I think it might signify more loyalty than anything else. I would say it's worth a call, would be a really short phone conversation either way. The only reason I even bring it up is that I think somewhere deep in the many threads of ScarletW wait times and pre EpicW announcement Jarred may have mentioned that it would be possible to get a deal with a non-working body. Again, I have no hard fact and haven't found that thread/comment buried in the 100s of pages, but it MIGHT be a thing.

Really don't want anyone holding me to it, but Robino if you do find out either way, definitely write back here so we know.

 

[Andy White]

That totally makes sense. I know when upgrading within the same body things would definitely need to be working, but this program is called Red Owner Pricing and I think it might signify more loyalty than anything else. I would say it's worth a call, would be a really short phone conversation either way. The only reason I even bring it up is that I think somewhere deep in the many threads of ScarletW wait times and pre EpicW announcement Jarred may have mentioned that it would be possible to get a deal with a non-working body. Again, I have no hard fact and haven't found that thread/comment buried in the 100s of pages, but it MIGHT be a thing.

Really don't want anyone holding me to it, but Robino if you do find out either way, definitely write back here so we know.

Agreed

A Red owner 'loyalty' upgrade would be great - I know we've all put a lot of cash into the eco system and the body represents only a part of that... having the partial security of knowing an upgrade could be done (if something catastrophic happens, as in Robino's case), would be a good card to have. Maybe restrict to the original purchaser only (keeping it as more of a loyalty thing).

Echoing Brendan's view - call your BS and we'll keep our fingers crossed