Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Dragon - Power Consumption

Andrei Goaga

Andrei Goaga

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
319
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Hey guys,

I'm just starting out to kit an Epic Dragon.

Because of black shading and time for sensor to reach a certain temperature (or so I read around here) do you guys keep the camera on at all times during a shooting day? So I need to take in considerations buying bricks in order to keep the camera on for the whole day?

Also, the manual states that the Epic can draw a max of 12 A, and I see people on the forum using successfully battery from IDX, Bebob, GMP, etc. that don't even come close to 8 or 10 A max output, how is that possible?

Thanks,

Andrei
 
So, no ideas?

I went with 12A high-load SWIT batts in the end, hope they are good.

Any comments on keeping the camera powered-on all the time?

Thank you,

Andrei
 
There are a couple of ways to keep power to your DRAGON during a battery swap.

The first is to get the sidehandle and put a redvolt in there.

The second would be to get the Quickplate module, which doesn't use the DC in port, and a block battery which does use the DC port.

The third would be to get a hotswap battery plate. Its basically a V-mount or AB plate that has two battery slots so you can pull off one battery at a time, while the other one maintains power to the camera. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images500x500/Switronix_GP_TS_GPTS_V_Mount_Hot_Swap_359201.jpg

However, if you don't want to spend the extra money, you absolutely CAN power your camera off for a battery swap. If you can power down the camera, swap batteries, and restart the camera all in less than like five minutes, then the camera will still be at full operational temperature (good thing that battery swaps take less than a minute!). Don't worry about the camera turning into a block of ice just because it isn't powered on. It takes a good amount of time (15-30 minutes) for the camera to become too cold to turn on and shoot. So unless you absolutely need to keep your camera running for the entirety of your shoot, then hot-swap might be unnecessary for you.
 
Hey,

Thank you very much for all the details. I was planning to use the side handle with a REDVOLT for a hot-swap.

What I was wondering was if I really need to keep the camera powered at all times, especially when other things happen on the set, like art design building stuff or make-up taking to long or installing a crane or making a new lighting set-up.

I might have pauses like this 20 - 30 mins for 2 - 3 times a day, and that would mean 1.5 - 2hr of time in which the camera can be turned off. But you never know when you need to start shooting, and if it takes 5 - 10 mins for the sensor to reach temp, I might as well leave the camera on. Or this "sensor temp" is not that important?

Thanks,

Andrei
 
Sensor temp is VERY important, especially in relation to your current blackshade map. I hope I didn't make sensor temp seem unimportant. It is critical that the T/E indicators be green for the absolute cleanest image possible. (Although you can survive with the T/E indicators in the yellow, just expect a little more noise.)

However, the good news is that it sounds like you are shooting in a professional set environment. This means your 1st AD should know exactly how long things are supposed to take. If you can politely ask to be kept in the loop, then you can plan your camera running times accordingly. I have found that if you talk to the 1st AD before hand and explain how knowing this information can help you work more efficiently, they will usually help you out as much as they can. A good 1st AD will know that the camera working efficiently means that the set can run efficiently.

If your shoot is well planned and well executed then the above method should suffice. However, we all know that sometimes planning falls apart and we have to wing it. So if you ever do get caught off guard and need to warm up the camera quickly you can do a couple of things.

1. Turn the fans to manual and set the standby speed to 25%. This is essentially the "Off" position for the fans. This will allow the camera to warm up faster, by not suppressing the cameras natural heat output. Then, once you are at the proper temperature, you can set the fans back to adaptive and continue shooting.

2. If you need to warm up the camera even faster than that, and can afford to either burn card space or reformat a card, set the record fan speed to 25% and record the highest FPS you can at your current settings. This will cause the camera to heat up VERY quickly. Again, once you are at the proper temperature make sure to reset the fans to adaptive mode and possibly reformat the card as well.

So, back to the question of should you turn your camera off for a 20-30 minute break. I would say YES, turn the camera off the second you hit your break, but be prepared to turn it on 5 minutes or so before everyone comes back to shoot. In the long run the 10-30 minutes of battery run time you save could add up to a lot of extra use out of your batteries.
 
That is awesome!

Thank you for all the advice. That sounds really good practice.

The thing with warming-up the camera is quite difficult to grasp at first, especially coming from other systems. But it doesn't seem that difficult. In any condition you take 3 - 5 minutes rehearsal time anyway with the camera on, after some breaks.

I'm very curios to see how things will work out in a run-n-gun situation, but we'll see :)

Thank you,

Andrei
 
Exactly, like most other issues with the RED ecosystem, the sensor temp problem can be solved with a tiny bit of planning. I always find it a bit amusing that people complain about minor issues like this and forget about the mind boggling insane technology that fits in their hands.

Coming from most other modern camera systems though, it does seem a little odd that RED cameras require that a few "quirks" be properly controlled for maximum image quality. However, I like to phrase the argument in a different light.

To me, the difference is like the difference between an F-1 car (RED) and an Audi A4 (An unnamed german camera manufacturer ;) ). If you were to pit these two cars against each other in a race, the F-1 car would win in almost every proper race scenario. However, the F-1 needed a team of trained mechanics to get it to the starting line, while the Audi A4 could have driven to the starting line by the driver, from his or her house.

The point is that, the higher you rise into the technologically "impossible", the more "quirks" you have to deal with. The question becomes, are those "quirks" deal breakers, and if not, how can the effects from these "quirks" be mitigated.

P.S. I'm sure the F-1 mechanics would agree that the Audi A4 is a fantastic car, but they would laugh if you tried to argue that it was better than an F-1 car because it was more useable. Everyone has a different perspective on what a car (or camera) should do.
 
Run and Gun is a totally different beast then full production crew sets. As much as I absolutely love the image I get out of my DRAGON, if I am running and gunning, then IQ probably isn't the most important consideration of that project. Therefore I would probably sacrifice IQ for the sake of costs or time (which also equals costs anyways). Which means I would probably end up shooting on a different camera system for that project. It's always important to remember that even though DRAGON makes arguably the best non IMAX image on the planet, that doesn't mean that it is necessarily the right camera for that project. Horses For Courses.
 
Could not agree more! Great insight into the system. Main reason for purchase for me was the F-1 type technology the camera delivers! Can't wait to put it through it's paces!

All the best,

Andrei
 
Glad I could help Andrei. Have fun with these next couple of months of testing your F-1 car in a box! It's challenging, but it will definitely be one of the more exhilarating and rewarding experiences in your filmmaking career!
 
It will be for sure! Thank you and have a great time shooting that Dragon also :)
 
I have just had the Dragon upgrade to my Epic-M. It has some very interesting features. I have noticed that with the fans in "adaptive" mode, it warms up very quickly and I do not seem to have to do anything about temperature in my filming environments. However, it has a sleep mode. How much does that help conserve batteries during filming breaks? Does it keep the camera up to temperature?

David
 
This is a good thread, i've been wondering myself how to go about powering an Epic. Is there any examples of what this black shading issue causes, what to watch out for, and perhaps, what room for play there is in the images?

The reason i ask is that besides production work, I plan on using my camera for capturing b roll / stock footage wherever i go, and i imagine i won't always have the luxury of carrying multiple large bricks. so i'm definitely curious in which situations this will be more important than others, and what can be easily managed in post etc.. i'm sure i'll figure out most of these things through experimentation, but any iinsight would be appreciated.
 
I've never used the power save feature. However, and this is heresay so take it with a grain of salt, I've heard that power save mode doesn't really save any power at all. I believe all it does it turn off the backlight on the screens? But I'm not positive about that so I would test for yourself.
 
When you black shade incorrectly you get a significantly noisier image than if you had properly blackshaded. Also, you will probably not have much room to mess around with the image in post. Improper black shading and under exposure are the two main culprits for bad RED footage.

I usually suggest not using a DRAGON for unplanned shoots. There are too many variables. However, if you have to, then set you blackshades to a lower sensor temperature. This will help you reach your operating temperature faster.
 
I can see that my Epic runs around 46C - 47C, is that normal for you also? I find it to reach that working temp quite fast, so the powering down issue on breaks it really is not that problematic.

Andrei
 
That is about the temperature range I normally run my camera at. In a perfect environment I aim for 45/65(sensor/core) but if I know I will be in less than ideal conditions I will BS for 47C.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top