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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC, DR, HDR and stuff...

Seriously impressed!!!!

Jannard said:
EPIC uses the same sensor as the RED ONE M-X. People seem to be very happy with the R1 M-X. However, it should be noted that the RED ONE M-X processes at 12 bit. EPIC is 16 bit. And that doesn't count the EPIC HDR mode. While the HDR mode may not (or may) be available when EPIC ships, we can tell you that it is quite a feat. Some people wish that RED just shipped cameras that were done. Sorry. That is never likely to happen. Since the release of the RED ONE, we have improved everything, and almost everything for free. We see that as a good thing. Don't ever expect that concept to change.

There seems to be some confusion about our philosophy. I have been told that some think we put resolution ahead of dynamic range. Not true. We believe in both. We think those that put dynamic range ahead of resolution are short-sighted. Both matter. There is no question that the industry is moving to a 4K delivery. Sony, Sharp, Panasonic, Samsung, Epson, Barco, Christie, Chimei and others have, or are poised, to release 4K displays. There is no turning back.

Every new sensor design from RED will have more DR than the last. And more resolution. Both. Not one. And we make upgrading as painless as possible for our customers. I am a customer. That's the way I want it.

We love the fact the other companies are moved by our example to improve their cameras. That is really terrific for the industry. But make no mistake, we are not done pushing the industry along. Until others actually give you enough resolution to be "future-proof", plenty of DR and at a price that everyone can afford, we will stay in business. When they provide all of the above, we just might take a vacation. Until then...

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Just rambling a bit here before I go to sleep after a long day/night of good work.

DR can give you a wide net, but bit-depth can save you in other ways.
Say you have something beautiful going on, and you are hoping your camera will be able to capture it just as you see it... but you look at the waveform and it is all packed in a thin portion of the range. The image on the monitor doesn't look how your eyes see...
...but I can fix it in post! OK, sure, but... will it look rich?

DR can save you, we all want googolplexes of DR! But bit-depth will save you too!

Bit-depth can let you easily fan out that portion of the waveform to better represent how your eyes and brain were able to see it, and keep it from looking bland and just horrid.

With film I think one would develop that scene or shot it in a particular way to take advantage of film's great "analog bit-depth", and then you would dial it in in DI.

Now on the other hand, with a high bit-depth RAW, you would also be able to develop it in the same fashion, and likely test it at full debayer in RT on set, which would let you make sure you can go ahead and capture it, instead of trying to replicate it with higher contrast using artificial light.

Is this density I am talking about? Perhaps density is not the right word. I know it is a technical photographic term. Maybe I am using the right term by luck, anywho... what I am talking about is obviously data density, the "malleablility coeficient" of your footage.

I just hope REDCODE can dazzle us all one more time. I know it will, but at the moment 5k 16-bit sounds huuuuge.

Maybe Jim can put us at ease with a new sample. :coolgleamA:
 
EPIC MX has a RAW with enough DR and bit-depth to give your shots the best look at digital acquisition in the industry.

Probably some of others will try out to 'smuggle' something in between with stories like an "our camera only can match film look" or a "great DR", or...etc,...

...all similar in that way but if really they want to catch RED step they have to do more own R&D and also invest a lot.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Yes Sanjin, we know you hate ARRI cause they are triple-distilled evil, and that one night you caught them killing puppies in a dark alley...

Let ARRI be, man! ...its cool, we all love each other, big grouphugs ...all around.
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Roberto,

I do not hate ARRI at all!!!

Who told you this?

I'm always for a good and healthy sort of criticism.

Btw, criticism is pretty strong German philosophical tradition based on Ancient Greek Philosophy, see Criticism of Hegel>>>

Just because I sometimes here complained about Alexa's high price and low resolution...

but c'mon man WE with R1-MX today or soon Epic can do it always better...

...and of course let them (Arri) do whatever they want to do...!!!
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
DR can save you, we all want googolplexes of DR! But bit-depth will save you too!
Click to expand...

I'd suggest concentrating on "creative" part and not "saving" part because DP's will get sloppy. :)

Young ones will learn less by relying more on "fix it in post".


It is still unclear whether this will be a full 16 bit pipeline.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
DR can save you, we all want googolplexes of DR! But bit-depth will save you too!
Click to expand...

That's assuming the sensor is actually getting the information.

Remember the HVX200 with 1080P and 4:2:2 and DVCHDPRO. The specs are fine but the sensor was never anywhere near being able to serve the camera with what it was theoretically capable of holding.

So specs always need to be tested against real world observations - which is usually pitting two cameras against each other all the way through post and ignoring specs in my mind.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
I'd suggest concentrating on "creative" part and not "saving" part because DP's will get sloppy. :)

Young ones will learn less by relying more on "fix it in post".
Click to expand...

I should have bet someone would misinterpret or only comment on that which sounded sensationalistic.

I know you mean well Hrvoje, but just because someone writes something on a forum it doesn't mean if describes how they work, who they are, what they know...

...this is an informal conversation, not a resume. :)

SJ, my buddy, you know I love you man, but you also know that people misinterpret speech all the time. I am merely suggesting you take a look at your written tone from the other angle before posting, so that we keep a healthy distance from posts that may feed others to label us as young ;) fanboys.
 
Roberto, smiley in my post represented my face while writing it. No misinterpretation of your thoughts whatsoever...

All good vibes. ;)
 
Thank you Hrvoje. I feel better now. :) I always worry how I may come across when I post at 4:46am after writing for hours and already have a glass of something good in my hand. ;)
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
I'd suggest concentrating on "creative" part and not "saving" part because DP's will get sloppy. :)

Young ones will learn less by relying more on "fix it in post".


It is still unclear whether this will be a full 16 bit pipeline.
Click to expand...

I do abhor that mentality. Having a wider net does not mean you can be more sloppy, (Although there will be that trend, as it exists already) rather having a wider net means that I can capture all that yummy goodness I have lit the scene for and I do not have to compromise my choices to get it to fit into the narrow limits of the capture medium. Or more precisely, I can use a finer stroke and more finesse in my lighting style. :)
 
4k

4k

Hey Guys, I've been shooting Red for the past year now heavily for a few different projects. I work with a couple of directors that are up and coming, and when I say up and coming I mean there repped by Christopher Nolans agent :-). Before the Red we were shooting with an HVX-200, wich they shot Escape From City 17 in.

We started shooting are feature film with the Red One and now we're shooting with the MX, and it's phenominal. I can't wait to show you guys some frame grabs at least.

4k has been a godsend for us because we're shooting everything guerilla style and super low budget and it's given us so much play in post.

The biggest thing for us was the ability to zoom-in in post and not lose any detail. and being able to have that extra res to stabilize our footage. If it was 1080, this would not be as possible.

i say bring on the higher res.

Is 4k , 5k, 8k, overkill? heck no.

If I had my choice I would shoot all our stuff in 28k

It'll give us that much more freedom later. Thanks Jim.
 
16 bit per color is 2^16=65.535 not 32.000
However most 16 bit implementations ends up discarding the LSB and gives you 15 bits to work with wich is aprox. 32,000 nuances per channel. But there is no real reason to discard the LSB, so RED might choose to keep it at 65.535 nuances.
This have been an ongoing issue in Adobe Photoshop for many years in its 16-bit mode, but is supposedly been fixed in Photoshop CS4 and newer.
 
Francesco said:
Hey Guys, I've been shooting Red for the past year now heavily for a few different projects. I work with a couple of directors that are up and coming, and when I say up and coming I mean there repped by Christopher Nolans agent :-). Before the Red we were shooting with an HVX-200, wich they shot Escape From City 17 in.

We started shooting are feature film with the Red One and now we're shooting with the MX, and it's phenominal. I can't wait to show you guys some frame grabs at least.

4k has been a godsend for us because we're shooting everything guerilla style and super low budget and it's given us so much play in post.

The biggest thing for us was the ability to zoom-in in post and not lose any detail. and being able to have that extra res to stabilize our footage. If it was 1080, this would not be as possible.

i say bring on the higher res.

Is 4k , 5k, 8k, overkill? heck no.

If I had my choice I would shoot all our stuff in 28k

It'll give us that much more freedom later. Thanks Jim.
Click to expand...

This is the future of shooting. I can see a time where the resolution and DR are such that the DP doesn't even start work until post-production.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
I do abhor that mentality. Having a wider net does not mean you can be more sloppy, (Although there will be that trend, as it exists already) rather having a wider net means that I can capture all that yummy goodness I have lit the scene for and I do not have to compromise my choices to get it to fit into the narrow limits of the capture medium. Or more precisely, I can use a finer stroke and more finesse in my lighting style. :)
Click to expand...

Fixing bad footy in post may save some piker's butt at times, but it won't make him an artist. Capturing the best possible image is still a matter of art, science, and skill regardless of how capable the instrument is.
 
I agree.

And when I post the images, you can decide weather the artitsty is there :-)
 
If you don't want a naturalistic look, you'll still have to light. If you're shooting in a stage, you'll still have to light.

That said, it's also very clear that the DP will have to learn to 'light' more with just available sources by moving them or choosing the best possible angle given the location.
 
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