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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic At 2K

Dan Kanes said:
Just to clarify:

We are in a subforum Called Epic - so any kind of _Speculative_ Article by Philip Bloom about Scarlet doesn't belong in here as a point of meaningful, factual, grounded in the Real World, hands-on, scientific or otherwise reference.

Secondly:

The other thread in which I called you out was originally in Red Discussion - then it apparently got moved to Shot on Red - then back to Red Discussion - then back to Shot on Red - where it eventually died.

I actually had enough conviction to be responding to your Hyperbolic, and ill-informed posts from my iphone, with which I responded about a Really great Third Party test done in Australia - which you then slagged, when I realized that the whole thread had been moved to "Shot On Red" - a place where it didn't belong since it wasn't shot on Red - it was shot on Alexa.

Once you have done some real world analysis of anything, please get back to us. Even if its just opening a 2kWS .R3d file in Redcine X and showing us how bad it is.
Click to expand...
Do you have problems understanding what you read or are you just not wanting to understand in purpose? You don't see him talking about EPIC in that quote? Really? I mean seriously? This is the last time I will provide this quote for you:

Josh Snyder said:
obviously your opinions have no value anymore when it comes to something that is compared with eyes.
Click to expand...

Secondly:

It was on Red Discussion and it was moved to Shot on Red once not twice. btw, while bashing me in that thread you said it _wasn't_ moved (well, that was the whole point of your bashing). As the saying goes; it's too late when the shit's in the pants.

Test made by people from ASC wasn't good enough for you and you give me link for some blog post because there's where the turth is and you are asking why I didn't read the whole thing...
 
Hey Guys,

Hate to break in on the amazing exchange of off OP rants but thought might mention that with last nights firmware upgrade the Epic shoots 240fps @ full 1080, RC7:1

Shot both 240 and 300fps tonight and can't really tell the diff on test subjects like running water. Seems like 240fps is your answer to 2K on Epic for now.

Cheers!
 
I don't think that a different OLPF would make things better.

Any OLPF must be optimized for pixel size and distance, not for cropping. We compared EPIC, Alexa and F3 in a recent shootout. While EPIC and Alexa were virtually free of luma aliasing, both had minor chroma aliasing (EPIC had twice the resolution, of course). You can't help that on Bayer sensors without sacrificing too much resolution, and normally it's not a big problem. The Sony F3, OTOH, showed massive aliasing in luma too, obviously Sony has sacrificed filter strength for apparent sharpness. BTW, Alan Roberts, who tested it for the BBC, even claimed that it may have no OLPF at all, plus a photo sensor. I don't know if that's British sarcasm, since Sony claims it's a video sensor and the low-light capability seems to support that. But we have to accept that you can't squeeze more out of a Bayer pattern than RED does.

If you need 2K, light a bit more contrasty and apply some good sharpening algorithm in post, that's all you can do.
 
OLPF between MX and Epic is the same.
The main difference is the 2k 2.4:1 that you're comparing between Epic and MX.
Now that Epic has a 2k format that's 1080 tall, more pixels are available.
 
Uli Plank said:
I don't think that a different OLPF would make things better.

Any OLPF must be optimized for pixel size and distance, not for cropping. We compared EPIC, Alexa and F3 in a recent shootout. While EPIC and Alexa were virtually free of luma aliasing, both had minor chroma aliasing (EPIC had twice the resolution, of course). You can't help that on Bayer sensors without sacrificing too much resolution, and normally it's not a big problem. The Sony F3, OTOH, showed massive aliasing in luma too, obviously Sony has sacrificed filter strength for apparent sharpness. BTW, Alan Roberts, who tested it for the BBC, even claimed that it may have no OLPF at all, plus a photo sensor. I don't know if that's British sarcasm, since Sony claims it's a video sensor and the low-light capability seems to support that. But we have to accept that you can't squeeze more out of a Bayer pattern than RED does.

If you need 2K, light a bit more contrasty and apply some good sharpening algorithm in post, that's all you can do.
Click to expand...

Hey Uli,
Is it a linear issue or is there a quality "shelf"? My 3K test looks much, much cleaner than the 2K.
-Josh
 
Deanan said:
OLPF between MX and Epic is the same.
The main difference is the 2k 2.4:1 that you're comparing between Epic and MX.
Now that Epic has a 2k format that's 1080 tall, more pixels are available.
Click to expand...

Well there you go kids and a goodnight to all
 
Josh Snyder said:
As the saying goes; it's too late when the shit's in the pants.

Test made by people from ASC wasn't good enough for you and you give me link for some blog post because there's where the turth is and you are asking why I didn't read the whole thing...
Click to expand...

That "shit in the pants" thing must be something provencial in the vernacular of your particular region. I'm sorry you suffer incontinence, there is really nothing I can do about that.

As for a test conducted by one ASC member - well - that is all well and good that you accept anything you read on the internet, but just because someone is a member of a well-respected society does not all of a sudden make the findings of a test he or she is associated with Scientific, Reliable, or accurate.

And - as far as the "Blog" thing - if you opened your eyes - read what was written, watched the films, and then commented, at least you would be able to make an accurate statement about that particular series of tests - just as I gave the SCCE evaluation my own attention, separated truth from fiction, noted obvious discrepancies, and made my own analysis.

You're telling me that I can't just Read some "random" blog from the internet and take that as truth - OH! Except WAIT! That is what you just did with the Philip Bloom Blog - took a blog from the internet, interpreted its content as fact without analysis, and then cited it as a reference. Well done sir, Well Done.

Sorry, but I think this debate is over.
 
@ Josh: Well, 2K de-bayered just doesn't resolve HDTV to it's limit, while 3K does.
 
Thanks Deanan.
I will give the new build a test, and encourage my friend to do so as well. Agree that there is little visual difference between 240 fps and 300 fps.
Cheers,
Harry
 
OK OK Dan is just being a dick and acting like a child, Josh has a valid argument, though he may have NEVER uses and EPIC, his findings are correct. Its not the first time we have heard it, and its not the second, this is the hundredth time we have heard about EPIC in 2K, it is soft, its is soft, it is soft, but whatever thats not what EPIC is for, EPIC is for ultra high res footage, the 300fps stuff is just a bonus, a bonus I would never use but hey Dan if you like the footage then great.


P.S. the Adidas commercial is soft
 
This is ridiculous.

I'm new. And as I am awaiting my first RED camera, I come on REDuser to learn from the many intelligent and experienced users on here.
The level of professionalism, knowledge and community compared to many forums is quite exceptional.

I'm also a busy person, with a family to support, dreams on the line, and so much to learn to help me make the best out of my new camera.
Dan Kanes has already provided me with very informative, intelligent and useful advice - using his time to go above and beyond to provide a tut and then readily answer any questions and offer his assistance. Clearly a dedicated, very valuable and community minded RED user.

And in the other corner... Josh Snyder...

Life's short Josh, and I'm sick of wading through threads which have inevitably deteriorated into yet another argument with you.

I can see no reason why you are here on your weird little crusade other than to cause trouble Josh?
Your diatribes in the name of liberating the ignorant and deluded red masses are just silly.

So I'm reporting you.

Not because you like Canon Josh. Or because you bag on RED. Or hold an opposing point of view...
But because your a dick.

Maybe in real life your a nice guy. But on here, your a dick Josh.
You care far more about being right, than you do about being helpful.
You show no active desire in seeking any information, or trying to learn anything whatsoever from anyone on here.
Instead, your in a constant array of arguments with zero concern for any other user except yourself and your own opinion.

There's a great saying Josh. "If everyone else in the room is an asshole... It's you"

Feel free to let fire on my post Josh.
I promise I wont be wasting any further time responding to you.
This response was already pulling teeth.

I've got films to make, so I'm off to keep learning. Hopefully without more pages of your pointless arguments to wade through.

Best
Lliam
 
Hey Guys,

Make sure to rat out the proper "Josh" to the REDFeds. I'm the buff, tall good looking one who is, witty, always on point and amazing in bed. The evil "Josh" is a very short troll with warts.

BTW: how can folks be arguing about nothing in this forum when EPIC NOW HAS PLAYBACK!?!

Concerned for my safety,

-Josh
 
LOL

Roger on the "Josh" selection.
Not the roguish, witty, impeccably posting and non belligerent "Beadle."
But the endless war chronicles of I just can't stop "Snyder."
 
Last edited:
Liam I dont know why you are concerned, Josh has a good point, and awaiting your new RED cam you should know that 2K is soft...
 
Perry Wilson said:
Liam I dont know why you are concerned, Josh has a good point, and awaiting your new RED cam you should know that 2K is soft...
Click to expand...

I think maybe The Evil Josh "good point" is dated. Test the CURRENT full 1080 2K 240fps setting then continue the debate. Looks good to me for what it is. The 3K 150fps 7:1 is very solid and could be easily ramped up to 300fps in post.

Peace Brothers!
 
Hey Perry,

I have no issue with Josh Snyder's point about RED being soft at 2K. If I did I would have stated so.
I'll happily leave the discussion of such a point to be adultly discussed by those with the knowledge and experience on such matters. I'm not one of them.

I am concerned because, as I thought I had expressed, on multiple nights when I have come on REDuser to learn, I have instead spent a lot of time wading through arguments with Josh Snyder which do not serve the thread purpose or anybody else. I only bother because it's ongoing, which is why the referencing to other threads and the like by other users.

I value my time. And I greatly value constructive input. But I don't value needless repeat arguments.
 
Liam, Who started the arguement? I'm only interested in truth unlike some other people here. Why don't you just repot the person who in Perry's words is being a dick and childish? Instead you report me who had a valid and commonly shared opinion. But I guess in some wierd reduser way I'm the dick here because the information I share doesn't fit into the picture you have in your head about this given camera.

and btw, I like Canon, I like RED, I like ARRI, I like Panasonic, I like Sony and so on... I don't care what the name on the side says. I'm looking to buy EPIC-X and that's why I came to the forums in the first place.
 
Josh Snyder said:
. . . I'm the dick here because the information I share doesn't fit into the picture you have in your head about this given camera.
Click to expand...

Well not exactly, more like you are ignoring the OP and additional on point information that relates to it to carry on a wandering internet argument that would get you a black eye if said in person. Test the current firmware build at 2K and 3K then form an informed opinion. Who cares what something technical did a month ago - it's what it's doing today that counts. Technology changes - so should opinions.
 
I have nothing constructive I can add to this thread Josh S and until i do i won't be posting here again. I won't argue with you. And I wish you sincere good luck in moving onwards and upwards.
 
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