EPIC + ARRI/Fujinon Alura Zoom 45-250 T2.6 Questions

[Hans Weber]

Let me say ahead of time that I come from a broadcast background, and I am just dipping my toes in the world of RED, so please excuse any gross errors I make in my reasoning/questions.

I have seen some comments on using 18-80 with an EPIC, but nothing about the 45-250. The quality of the glass and mechanics aside, the first thing I need to find out is whether the lens gives full frame coverage of the 5K EPIC sensor. The specs from ARRI indicate that it has an image diameter that will cover at least DIN Super 35 (30.0 mm), but the EPIC sensor at FF 5K is slightly larger (27.65 x 14.58, ID ~ 31.26 mm, I believe). Can anyone confirm that they have used this lens to shoot FF 5K without vignetting?

I am also interested in pairing a PL doubler/extender with the 45 - 250. The ARRI-Fujinon brochures indicate that Fujinon has new extenders specifically for the Alura's (Fujinon Zoom Extender 2.0x - K2.47927.0), but I have not been able to locate them anywhere except in the brochure. Has anyone used/located these? If not, can you recommend an alternative PL doubler? Will the 2x ARRI Extender work?

My understanding of the geometry of the situation is that if a lens fully covers the sensor, then there should be no problem with coverage when adding an extender. The only issue I can imagine would be if the housing or entrance pupil of the extender were designed specifically for a typical 35mm target and thus were small enough so that they cropped the incoming image. Is this accurate? If so, can anyone confirm a specific doubler they have used that still provides full coverage of the full frame 5K sensor?

Thanks,
Hans

 

[Craig Weeding]

Hello Hans

I used a 45-250 with an Epic-M last month. We were not shooting full frame we were shooting 2.4:1 Fantastic piece of glass. Razor sharp and good coverage at 2.4:1, did not check FF coverage.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Hello Hans,

I cannot verify that the 45-250 covers Epic 5K, however, I can almost assure you that if you were to use a doubler, the image circle would surely cover. I'm not a lens expert but almost all doublers I have worked with, work the same way. They expand the image circle, thus is why you have the light loss.

So if you were to use an Arri doubler made for the Alura's, you can very well expect that if the lens didn't already cover the 5k sensor, it surely will now. By doubling the image circle projection, the area of which the lens circle covers quadruples, which is why the light loss is two-stops on a 2x doubler.

So I don't know about the Alura's at 5k, it very well may cover... but with a doubler, I can almost certainly say you'll be fine.

If anything, you're worried the wrong way around. A doubler should only make coverage better. Not worse.

 

[Craig Weeding]

Hi Hans

I rented the 45-250 from Lemac when we were shooting in Melbourne , Lemac also has a Epic so you might want to contact them and ask about the 45-250 coverage with the Epic FF, they should know.

http://www.lemac.com.au/epic.htm

 

[Mitch Gross]

The 45-250 does indeed cover the full 5K sensr area. I have tested this both on a camera and on a lens projector.

A doubler is a different issue. While it may expand the image, a doubler can also have internal mechanical baffles which prevent the light from transmitting to a larger image circle. But it is no matter. There is currently no doubler available on the market that will physically fit the rear element protrusion of the 45-250. I know of some in the works but that is likely many months away.

 

[Mark de Blok]

Hi Mitch,

This is the reason I bought THE 45-250, works like a dream.....

Regards

Mark

 

[Hans Weber]

Thank you all for you quick replies -- I really appreciate how helpful everyone on this forum is.

In light of Mitch's comments about the rear element protrusion of the 45-250 making it incompatible with available doublers, I guess I will get in touch with ARRI and/or Fujinon about the extender they indicated was being released for the Alura (Fujinon Zoom Extender 2.0x - K2.47927).

As a related question, we have a RED 50-150 on the way -- does anyone know if the Scheider Optics extender will be compatible with this lens? Schneider has indicated that they have 17.2 mm of clearance between the PL flange and the front of the optical element of the extender, but I don't know how far the 50-150 protrudes behind the PL mount.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Mitch Gross]

AbelCine is a dealer for the ARRI/Fujinon lenses and lens adapters. The 2x extender is currently still under development. I also know of at least one more unit under development that will function with the ALURA lenses, including the 45-250. But I would not expect either of these units to be avaiable before the end of this year.

I don't know the rear protrusion of the 50-150.

 

[Charles Papert]

Bringing back an old thread here--Mitch, did the Alura doubler ever materialize? Any other options out there?

 

[Joe Shamel]

Its 2013 and still no doubler for the 45-250. I guess we will still just have to wait patiently twiddling our thumbs.

 

[Jon Jones]

This is true. The 45-250 that I bought from AbelCine is an amazing lens, absolutely the best lens of all my lenses. I have tested it on 5kFF multiple times and it does cover at every length. However there is no doubler that will actually fit the back of the lens. Your going to have to have one made, or wait for the fruition of others.

-Jon

The 45-250 does indeed cover the full 5K sensr area. I have tested this both on a camera and on a lens projector.

A doubler is a different issue. While it may expand the image, a doubler can also have internal mechanical baffles which prevent the light from transmitting to a larger image circle. But it is no matter. There is currently no doubler available on the market that will physically fit the rear element protrusion of the 45-250. I know of some in the works but that is likely many months away.

 

[Charles Papert]

Here's the word direct from Arri on the promised Alura doubler:

"At next NAB we will make an announcement about availability of the 2x
extender and all technical specifications. If you have the chance please
see us at NAB for detailed informations."