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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic, alexa, c-500 ,scarlet, which one would you suggest?

pawitter parmar

pawitter parmar

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Hello everyone,


I am Peter Parmar a previous red one owner camera#3250, i am looking forward to buying a new digital film camera, with a lot of new cameras on the market Im really confused on what to buy. The camera I'll buy will be used for my own personal projects (low budjet feature films) and I would also like to rent it out for when it is free. Please suggest something which is right for me. Ive looked at cameras like Alexa, scarlet, c-500 and also the epic - m package. I'd appreciate your help


Also, other than the red pro primes and cp2's , which lenses would you recommend in the budget of 25000 usd.



Thank you
 
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EPIC flat out the most versatile, technically advanced, future proof, palm of your hand compact capable motion picture camera in the world.
From a company that just cares more and will break barriers more often than any other camera company available.
You can do so much more, for longer, lighter and better things with this camera than any other camera anywhere.
You have great options with other cameras that exist.
But if I can simply do more with an EPIC than I Can with any other camera for Less, then that is my
Weapon of choice.

And for 25K
you cant go wrong with RPP or CP2s.

Best of luck to you.
Luis
 
Hello Luis ,
Thanks lot Sir for your advice so I should go for epic- m package .
Oh what about the lens RPP vs CP2 which one is more sharper and better opening. Or any other choice in that 25-30 K budget .
 
Epic is most versatile. Scarlet is best bargain for the price while retaining most flexibility. Also compatibility with Epic means your Scarlet accessories work well with a rented Epic that you may wish to get for certain slowmo shots.

Graeme
 
Buy the Epic and get free dragon upgrade! Or if you don't have the money, but know the craft: Scarlet is extremely cheap, buy it, make some commercials with it, buy the Epic with funds generated with the Scarlet. And you have a back-up-brain (Scarlet, just in case), or you can sell it.

Alexa seems like a bad choice. You can get them used for less than the price of an Epic at this point, and I guess they can be bought for half of that when the 4k Alexa with onboard raw recording is released (a camera I'll probably need btw :p ).
 
Powitter,
For what you do, Epic (or Scarlet) seams like a clear choice.



Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Buy the Epic and get free dragon upgrade! Or if you don't have the money, but know the craft: Scarlet is extremely cheap, buy it, make some commercials with it, buy the Epic with funds generated with the Scarlet. And you have a back-up-brain (Scarlet, just in case), or you can sell it.

Alexa seems like a bad choice. You can get them used for less than the price of an Epic at this point, and I guess they can be bought for half of that when the 4k Alexa with onboard raw recording is released (a camera I'll probably need btw :p ).
Click to expand...

Jon, I would love you to point me to Alexa for the price you mentioned, thanks!
Albert
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Epic is most versatile. Scarlet is best bargain for the price while retaining most flexibility. Also compatibility with Epic means your Scarlet accessories work well with a rented Epic that you may wish to get for certain slowmo shots.

Graeme
Click to expand...


Hey it's Graeme !!!!!!!
 
Expecting to rent a Scarlet is probably a bad idea unless you're the only game in town. Not sure what the market is like in India, but I'd say you'd have a tougher time renting a Scarlet than a R1mx, even though the Scarlet offers more features and size advantages over the R1. Depending on how much you rent, that may make Epic the better choice.

Conversely, unless you're making the majority of your money off rentals, I don't see the Alexa being able to pay itself off. I haven't used a C500 but it's low-light performance might be worth considering depending on you shooting conditions... Also, local Canon availability might be something else worth considering.
 
Well after just getting off of a 4 day shoot with my EPIC, Ultra Primes, and Alura 45-250, I would say buy the EPIC-X, or SCARLET-X, and spend the remaining budget on glass. The difference between the RPP's and the Ultra Primes is stark! The ARRI Alura zoom is also a wonderful lens, it is my new favorite. If you have the budget, use it to invest in glass mostly.
You'll have folks that tell you the CP2's and RPP's are just fine for anything, and that's what I thought too.... Until I got my hands on the Ultra's, and the Alura! Oh man I don't ever want to shoot on anything else!

pawitter parmar said:
Hello everyone,


I am Peter Parmar a previous red one owner camera#3250, i am looking forward to buying a new digital film camera, with a lot of new cameras on the market Im really confused on what to buy. The camera I'll buy will be used for my own personal projects (low budjet feature films) and I would also like to rent it out for when it is free. Please suggest something which is right for me. Ive looked at cameras like Alexa, scarlet, c-500 and also the epic - m package. I'd appreciate your help


Also, other than the red pro primes and cp2's , which lenses would you recommend in the budget of 25000 usd.



Thank you
Click to expand...
 
I just don't see the Alexa, and especially the C-500 a good long term investment, and I hope were talking about long term, right?

I don't see ARRI, or Canon upgrading their camera systems at all, so in a few short years with the rate of camera's being delivered to the market, the ARRI and Canon camera's will lose much of their initial value. Whereas the RED camera systems are being continually upgraded. Only time will tell, but I think RED is the best choice at this point.
 
Just depends on when you would reach your break-even point in your investment, after that, it's just profit on the equipment. Some people get an order for a long-term project where any camera they purchase will have been paid off before the production is even halfway finished, so the longer-term investment issues are less relevant.
 
Epic, especially directly from RED if you want the Dragon update in the same price.

Why EPIC.

RED RAW on camera, a little bigger than a DSLR
5K ready, now
Modular
Great customer service
Interchangeable lens mounts
Slo-Mo 120fps @ 4k, 96fps @ 5k (will increase with Dragon update, so will the latitude)
many more.
 
Hello Asif,
My self also from toronto lived in toronto last 25 years just move back in india 3 years ago.
Thank you for your valuable time & your knowledgable info. Thanks a lot .
 
Jon Jones said:
I just don't see the Alexa, and especially the C-500 a good long term investment, and I hope were talking about long term, right?

I don't see ARRI, or Canon upgrading their camera systems at all, so in a few short years with the rate of camera's being delivered to the market, the ARRI and Canon camera's will lose much of their initial value. Whereas the RED camera systems are being continually upgraded. Only time will tell, but I think RED is the best choice at this point.
Click to expand...


I have no idea why you think RED is more future proof than arri? They have added quite a few features (for ex 120fps), haven't they got 3k raw coming (i saw a box on top of an alexa on one shoot recording raw).

canon on the other hand doesn't need to be upgraded as its a steal compared with the price of a epic. when you upgrade you just buy a new body- canon tends to had great used value. when you buy it you wont have to wait for a year or two until all the features are ready, they will all work straight out of the box.

please explain the reasons why the c500 isnt a good long tern investment?

cheers paul
 
Long term as in 10 + years... No camera system is future proof that's for sure, however RED.com has made it a point to provide free upgrades and listens to the needs of the customers for the most part. Whereas other camera companies do neither. How do I think the C-500 will fair in 10-20 years? With all of the advances in modern photography, and all of the camera systems coming out, it will be junk for people in the Cinematography field. I am confident however in the reliability of RED to keep on upgrading and providing firmwares to keep their system relevant for many more years to come.

Listen man, I am not saying your C-500 is a piece of junk, it isn't. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is look at camera systems from 20 years ago and see how they are fairing... They may be doing alright, until they break, then try to find parts for them...

I only have 2 camera bodies, and I have spent much more on glass than I ever will on camera's. In 20 years my Ultra Primes will still be going strong, no doubt about that.

paul ross jones said:
I have no idea why you think RED is more future proof than arri? They have added quite a few features (for ex 120fps), haven't they got 3k raw coming (i saw a box on top of an alexa on one shoot recording raw).

canon on the other hand doesn't need to be upgraded as its a steal compared with the price of a epic. when you upgrade you just buy a new body- canon tends to had great used value. when you buy it you wont have to wait for a year or two until all the features are ready, they will all work straight out of the box.

please explain the reasons why the c500 isnt a good long tern investment?

cheers paul
Click to expand...
 
c500 has a estimated pricing of starting at 30k, but the rumor mill from resellers I've been talking to are looking more at 40k. but even at 30k, you still need a offboard recorder bought separately to shoot in 4k. otherwise it' sjust a overpiced c300. offboard recorder that can go 4k raw, upcoming are only 3 options so far.

ki pro quad, gemini raw, and codex M.

codex obviously incredibly expensive, ki pro quad initial pricing they were guessing around 5-6k, and gemini raw probably in the 8k or more range.

ki pro quad can do 4k pro res to their ssds, but to record 4k raw, you have to thunderbolt tether to a computer and with a fast enough raid to get raw. pretty much unusable unless you are doing very slow paced studio work.

gemini raw is one of the better options, but if it's similar to the gemini 444, it's gonna have some quirks. (slow formatting of ssd media, slow close out time for a clip)

and 4k raw uncompressed is roughly 1 tb for an hour of footage. with little or no support at the moment for dailies creations as well.


so all said and done, a c500 package roughly costs close to what a epic a epic costs. with a need for external recording, and file sizes that are much larger than r3d. while an epic does high quality compressed recording all internally. with a rock solid workflow that's been cultivated and developed over several years. and constantly improving.

a camera is just a camera to me, but there are a lot of merits to what an epic can do. high quality compressed, internal recording. r3d really is the most brilliant thing about the camera in my opinion. when you start having to juggle all that data, you'll realize what a pleasure it really is to work with r3d.

all the costs stack up, more drives, more time for dailies creation, more time to make additional redundant backups.

and since there is no directl comparison in footage yet, we don't know if c500 footage will be any better than an epic. most def in noise floor, but c300 didn't offer that much more, if any in dynamic range. so time will tell in that department...

and than there are sensor upgrades that epic offers. while with canon to get a great leap forward in image quality you'll have to buy a whole new cam.

so c500 is really iffy in staying power, it really needs to offer up something that no camera can do right now, and from the prelim specs I'm not seeing it.
 
pawitter parmar said:
Hello Asif,
My self also from toronto lived in toronto last 25 years just move back in india 3 years ago.
Thank you for your valuable time & your knowledgable info. Thanks a lot .
Click to expand...

Nice to know that Pawitter, just got migrated there :-)

As far as a camera for long term goes and if you have the budget to buy one get the EPIC, otherwise get the Scarlet (but with the Dragon Sensor upgrade on Scarlet).
Lens wise, CP.2 Super speeds looking good to me. But only 3 focal lengths available. Also they cover full frame 35mm, so thats good. Considering most of the other lenses are S35 only. I am not sure but it might have some issue covering the complete Dragon sensor, from what I have read here on reduser.

Alexa is good, but it does not shoot RAW off the camera, you'll need a CODEX box that needs to be mounted on top of an already heavy camera (comparing it to EPIC's size and weight that is). There is a two stop difference between the current MX Sensor and Alexa sensor. its a minor difference considering the amount of money you'll be spending on a camera that is only "transitional" for being 4K ready (USD 100,000+), as with the CODEX box (and USD 20,000+) you'll be getting 3.5K RAW.

I wont be surprised if ARRI comes out with a new camera that shoots ARRIRAW 4K, without the need of CODEX. BTW, thats what I think there is a very huge chance it might happen. I might be wrong, just speculating.

So why even buy a camera thats not 4K ready.

If your budget is tight, go with Scarlet (it does 4K RAW without an external box etc, but unfortunately maxes out at 30fps, so no Slo-mos), use Canon glass or the CP.2 Super speeds.

Just my two cents.

hope this helped.

Also, see I didnt even consider Canon C500 (Thats because, all that hoopla over C300 was complete BS. Not that I dont like Canon, I love their DSLRs for photos and videos, considering how much they are for, but C300 was well, Make Believe (1080p, 8bit recording etc). Lol
 
Or, for less than the cost of a c500, you could buy this and start shooting days from now:

http://www.red.com/store/products/scarlet-x-pro-bundle

Hmmm - or maybe a Scarlet with Al Canon mount, Side SSD and $14,000 left over to buy some glass?


BTW, if Canon's history over the past few years continues, you might see an announcement for a new model not too long after you take delivery of the one you can only place a deposit on today.
 

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