EF vs. PL, prime vs. zoom advice.

[william howell]

so... my brain hurts...

i've read so much over the past few weeks on everything that's going on... dragon.. MoVI... mac pro... hp red machine... red rocket x... etc...

here's the deal..

It's my job to document research... from extremely low light lab environments to tropical jungles... from astro photography to cinematic style documentation, we have to be able to shoot every style of shot conceivable at a moments notice.. we rarely have time to plan a shot...

we're going to get an epic/dragon... we have a canon 5d mark iii... and a blackmagic ef lens mount cinema camera on order since last august (hahahahaha... sorry... i have to chuckle at that one... we REALLY want to cancel that order and get a 4k one... but... we're not sure that we can wait another year for a camera)...

we're looking for a lightweight rig, as most of our stuff is handheld/run and gun shoot...

lenses... i know that glass is everything... minus the camera innards...

what are the major differences between the two mounts (ef and pl) on the epic that we need to be focusing on.. is there a signifigant difference in weight?..... it looks like the ef mount has a much slimmer profile, which would shift the center of gravity closer to the back of the camera... for balancing in hand held stabilization rigs... is that true? or am i just imagining things?

what lenses or set of lenses (primes or zoom) can you guys recommend for our situation?

We're mainly looking at the Red line of lenses... and the Zeiss CP line...

cinematic zooms seem to be rather heavy... at least in our price point...

i know that no one has any experience with the Dragon yet... so all recommendations are based on specs at this point..

any info would be greatly appreciated.

billy

by the way... i have never even seen a Cinematic lens in person... just still lenses... so... keep that in mind... i truly don't know the advantages/disadvantages, as i'm a hands on kind of learner...

i should mention that we also have a sony nx5u camera i've used for a few years.. so.. i'm used to shooting cinema style with that... working with pulling focus, adjusting the iris during the shot, etc... working with sony's colorspace in post...

 

[ericyoung]

The EF mount is slimmer than the PL - but not by a huge amount, and weight difference is not much either, so centre of gravity shift due to the mount is marginal.

Any stills lens is almost certainly significantly lighter and smaller than the equivalent true cinema lens.
The cost of top of the line stills lenses is generally overall much cheaper than the equivalent optical quality cinema lens, although there is overlap.

Primes win on maximum apertures available, and absolute sharpness due to having fewer glass elements - useful for low light and shallow depth of field.
Zooms win on quick focal length changes without changing lenses, but generally have smaller maximum apertures. The best ones' are almost as good optically as the primes.
Often good to have both primes and zooms for different shooting situations.

All full frame stills lenses will cover 6K Dragon sensor. Not all cinema lenses will (but you can shoot windowed down to 5K or 4K to still use cinema lenses if necessary).

Stills lenses have poorer mechanics as they aren't designed for smooth, gradual, in shot focus pulls or zooms or iris changes. There may be image centre shift during zooming, and image size variation during focussing (lens breathing).

Focus mechanics and angle of rotation (throw) of the focus ring on cinema lenses is much easier to manually adjust with accuracy and smoothness.

 

[Louis Maddalena]

Ok well first I'm going to recommend that you spend a lot of time on this forum searching around for answers to your questions. There is a ton of information out there that I think you will ind extremely helpful.

First thing first, I would definitely recommend renting an Epic or a Scarlet for a shoot you know you have coming. The differences between it and a 5D are something you would not believe until you actually work with one and then want to edit it.

The balance and size between a PL mount and an EF mount are not what you should be looking at for a lens mount. You should be focusing on which lenses you want to use and how they mount to the camera.

For example if you want the CP.2s you have an option between EF and PL. However, if you want the Red lenses then you have to go PL. The benefits of having a PL mount on your camera is is opens you up to a lot of professional lenses such as Ultra Primes, Mater Primes, and Panchros, and many many many more. The benefits of an EF mount is that it opens you up to a lot of high quality, low cost lenses like Canon L series that you can pick up for an average of around 1500-2000 per lens, which is way cheaper than most PL mount glass.

Cinema lenses when you're holding them in person you will find that they are heavier than stills glass. They are all mechanic, so you'll need to move physical rings if you want to change your aperture, instead of pushing a button on your camera.

Since you're just breaking into the Red world and you have a 5D already, I'd say get the Cp.2s. They are pretty good for their price, and you can get them with an EF mount, and they are lighter than the RPPs. You will still be able to use the lenses with your 5D and you'll be able to use lenses you already have for your Red.

(PS. If you want to cancel your BM camera and get a 4k version you could also consider canceling it and getting a Scarlet, they ship rather quickly and get you 4k RAW)

 

[shashbugu]

Get An Allstar mount and witch lenses as you please. with all the new canon ef lenses coming out i would say go with ef. you'll get a very wide range for low light, infrared, super macro, extra wide etc for the price of a single decent Prime or zoom PL

 

[william howell]

thank you for the advice... i forgot to mention that we have a sony nx cam... so our camera functionality and post production isn't limited to shooting with a dslr... that's just the newest addition..

i've shot with the sony for a few years now...

billy

Ok well first I'm going to recommend that you spend a lot of time on this forum searching around for answers to your questions. There is a ton of information out there that I think you will ind extremely helpful.

First thing first, I would definitely recommend renting an Epic or a Scarlet for a shoot you know you have coming. The differences between it and a 5D are something you would not believe until you actually work with one and then want to edit it.

The balance and size between a PL mount and an EF mount are not what you should be looking at for a lens mount. You should be focusing on which lenses you want to use and how they mount to the camera.

For example if you want the CP.2s you have an option between EF and PL. However, if you want the Red lenses then you have to go PL. The benefits of having a PL mount on your camera is is opens you up to a lot of professional lenses such as Ultra Primes, Mater Primes, and Panchros, and many many many more. The benefits of an EF mount is that it opens you up to a lot of high quality, low cost lenses like Canon L series that you can pick up for an average of around 1500-2000 per lens, which is way cheaper than most PL mount glass.

Cinema lenses when you're holding them in person you will find that they are heavier than stills glass. They are all mechanic, so you'll need to move physical rings if you want to change your aperture, instead of pushing a button on your camera.

Since you're just breaking into the Red world and you have a 5D already, I'd say get the Cp.2s. They are pretty good for their price, and you can get them with an EF mount, and they are lighter than the RPPs. You will still be able to use the lenses with your 5D and you'll be able to use lenses you already have for your Red.

(PS. If you want to cancel your BM camera and get a 4k version you could also consider canceling it and getting a Scarlet, they ship rather quickly and get you 4k RAW)

 

[william howell]

thank you eric.

The EF mount is slimmer than the PL - but not by a huge amount, and weight difference is not much either, so centre of gravity shift due to the mount is marginal.

Any stills lens is almost certainly significantly lighter and smaller than the equivalent true cinema lens.
The cost of top of the line stills lenses is generally overall much cheaper than the equivalent optical quality cinema lens, although there is overlap.

Primes win on maximum apertures available, and absolute sharpness due to having fewer glass elements - useful for low light and shallow depth of field.
Zooms win on quick focal length changes without changing lenses, but generally have smaller maximum apertures. The best ones' are almost as good optically as the primes.
Often good to have both primes and zooms for different shooting situations.

All full frame stills lenses will cover 6K Dragon sensor. Not all cinema lenses will (but you can shoot windowed down to 5K or 4K to still use cinema lenses if necessary).

Stills lenses have poorer mechanics as they aren't designed for smooth, gradual, in shot focus pulls or zooms or iris changes. There may be image centre shift during zooming, and image size variation during focussing (lens breathing).

Focus mechanics and angle of rotation (throw) of the focus ring on cinema lenses is much easier to manually adjust with accuracy and smoothness.

 

[Neal Williams]

If you need a lower cost zoom, take a look at the Canon FD 150-600mm f5.6 L zoom lens. It comes with universal mounts for PL, Nikon and Canon. It is a manual zoom, and the focus will shift a little when zooming. It weighs 9.5-lb.

 

[Zhang Ming]

EF save your money. PL has advantages only on critical demands.