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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Editing directly with 2K proxies. . . what are we missing?

Stephen Pruitt

Stephen Pruitt

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Hi all. . .

We are currently using the following, really easy, workflow:

1. Shoot in 4K.

2. Import a 2K proxy directly into FCS (using a Mac Pro with a Kona 3 card and Black Magic card)

3. Edit in FCS.

4. Color correct using Color.

5. Export to required format.

Here's the deal. . . it is incredibly easy, all audio is kept in synch, and it looks absolutely terrific (scary good to our eyes).

The question is this: What are we missing by not using REDAlert or REDCine?

Stephen
 
This sounds great.

What does the kona 3 and black magic cards contribute to the process? Is your mac pro 8 core?

Thanks.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Hi all. . .

We are currently using the following, really easy, workflow:

1. Shoot in 4K.

2. Import a 2K proxy directly into FCS (using a Mac Pro with a Kona 3 card and Black Magic card)

3. Edit in FCS.

4. Color correct using Color.

5. Export to required format.

Here's the deal. . . it is incredibly easy, all audio is kept in synch, and it looks absolutely terrific (scary good to our eyes).

The question is this: What are we missing by not using REDAlert or REDCine?

Stephen
Click to expand...

One out of four pixels.
Debayering.
Most of the power of RAW.
These things seem more important to some than to others.

IBloom
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Hi all. . .
What are we missing by not using REDAlert or REDCine?
Click to expand...

If you're doing an HD finish and you're not seeing any aliasing or moire on shots with high detail.... and if you're not having issues with noise on pushed shots....

and if you're happy with the results....

Not Much.

Basically, you're not getting a full debayer with the proxies which affects aliasing and noise (among some other things). If you're getting what you want in color correction, then you're good.

I've noticed I can push the image further if I start out with RedLog DPXs... but if you're getting the results you want, then there's nothing more for you to do! :biggrin:
 
another possiblity
you could go to Red Alert 1st with your R3D ...make your 1st CC ( using the full range of RAW ) and then output new proxy's (it's very fast)
then take the new CC proxy's into FCP and edit then to Color for minor CC ...
 
In my opinion ALOT. If you test and take one shot, make a 2K DPX out of it and import that + your 2K proxy into Color. You'll see how much clearer the DPX is and that it of course has a lot more to offer for telecine.
It's also important for online, since you have more detail inside your data (and therefor more flexibility). So if you have work to be done in online then I would advice to go the DPX route.

On the other hand if your happy with what you get from the proxy...why bother, but at least look at the difference.


Fredrik Callinggard
 
another possiblity
you could go to Red Alert 1st with your R3D ...make your 1st CC ( using the full range of RAW ) and then output new proxy's (it's very fast)
then take the new CC proxy's into FCP and edit then to Color for minor CC ...
Click to expand...

WHAT?

You are still using proxies files.

One out of four pixels.
Click to expand...

You are not using all your marbles man, sorry I mean pixels man.

LOL


Debayering.
Most of the power of RAW.
Click to expand...

Hey, Ian.

Can you round trip in crimson if you use the EDL out of FCP editing with the proxies?

Thnx

Tek
 
what the difference between 2k proxies and 1080 prores files? both in quality and system hogitude.
 
As it is now I've used Prores files made from proxies to offline in FCP. Then I've used Ian's ingenious Crimson to generate myself an edit list in REDCine - from that I've converted to Camera RGB, REDLog 2K DPX (with an -0.5 exposure correction - since the REDLog tends to be slightly over, not that important) that I've imported into Color and I've CC'd properly.

If you really want to use your footage to full extent then that's what you should do (so sad not to when it's fully possible even in your laptop :wink: ).

regards,

Fredrik
 
but why convert to prores first?
 
but why convert to prores first?
Click to expand...

Prores is so far the highest quality off-line format with the least hardware requirement.

You can also edit DPX files from get go if you have Gluetools and a Big Powerful machine.

I use gluetools a lot too for DPX work flows.

Tek
 
I'll definitely try some of these suggested changes, but I have to say, the footage we're getting just using the 2K proxies is the best RED footage I have personally seen. I cannot imagine anything being "better" than what we're getting, but I'll admit that I haven't seen everything great.

So far, not only have we not experienced a "noise problem," but I can scarcely see any noise at all. And that's with my face pressed up into a 30" monitor, and looking at very dark interior shots. So far, I've been incredibly unimpressed with Prores. I find it vastly noisier than the straight 2K proxies.

Jason, etc., the Kona 3 card and the Blackmagic HDPro just allow us to experience pixel-to-pixel 2K monitoring.

Regardless of how we do it, suffice it to say that we are just LOVING these two cameras ("Lewis" and "Clark"). I just cannot imagine shooting this film on anything else.

Stephen
 
Quality Difference in Proxies

Quality Difference in Proxies

Hello there
It seems important to me that this issue is fully resolved.
The RAW workflow naturally is better, since we r using all the data we have.
Working with the proxies only, is much faster to online.
The question is, what is the spec quality of these 2K proxies?
Aren't these proxies coded in "least quality" quicktime?
Check your proxies with the analyze clip tool in FCP.

Are you using the 'F' or 'H' proxy? [is F usable already?]
Is there a way to change the specs of these proxies on shoot?
Thank you for your replies.
Have a good one

Snow
Director_editor
Snowdrum Audio Visual
www.snowdrum.com
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
So far, not only have we not experienced a "noise problem," but I can scarcely see any noise at all. And that's with my face pressed up into a 30" monitor, and looking at very dark interior shots.
Click to expand...

The noise problem usually occur in low light conditions when you have to lift your dark areas, even if it's just slightly, especially in certain conditions. As long as you shoot as you want it and don't really do much in CC you're fine (or if you're going the other way and crush the shadows).

Beauty though is that you see what you get so I tend to shoot as I want it and problem is solved. It does though make it difficult when client changes there mind, that is easier on film.


Fredrik
 
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