Editing card...

[Jesse Johnson]

Hey everyone,

I have a Mac Pro quad-core with 6GB RAM and an Nvidia GeForce 8800GT. I'm considering buying the new Black Magic DeckLink HD Extreme 3 (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/)

I'm getting this because I don't have enough to spare for an AJA Kona card. From what I'm reading this card will allow me to edit 2K footage with the advantage of real-time effects and video output.

Before I buy, I was wondering if anyone who's actually edited with this card or it's predecessor could share their opinion of it's performance.

I'd appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

 

[Greg Huson]

We have both and prefer the Kona 3. No surprise there, I suppose. Do not have the dual-link version of the BMD card, so it's not an entirely fair comparison, and have no specific complaints about the decklink- just prefer the AJA. Come to think of it, the system with the BMD card gets more day-to-day use, based simply on the location of the edit bay. But anything complex, weird, unique... all goes through the K3.

So, I may not have been any help. The BMD works. Does that info help?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you're looking to accelerate editing with REDCODE or native R3D files, the BMD and AJA cards will not do this. Just be aware of that. That's why the RED ROCKET announcement is so significant. Unfortunately, it looks like the ROCKET will be priced higher than the Kona3, but should be worth every penny for those who need the speed.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

So, I may not have been any help. The BMD works. Does that info help?

That does help. Thanks! Do you have any problems editing quicktime files at 2K res with this card?

If you're looking to accelerate editing with REDCODE or native R3D files, the BMD and AJA cards will not do this. Just be aware of that.

:yikes: Didn't know that.

Good thing I'm not looking to edit native R3D. I enjoy using the Crimson workflow. I guess the bottom line is, and this is just an example, if I were to render out RED footage from REDALERT! as 2K Quicktime movies, then drop them into FCP, would this card allow me to do realtime editing in the 2K resolution without having to render everything?

I know their website says it can, but I'm looking for feedback from someone who's actually edited 2K with this card.

With my set-up right now, if I try to edit 2K it skips and pauses and I don't get real-time playback. I just don't have enough graphics power. And every time I add an effect in FCP I'm forced to render, no matter what resolution I'm working in. I'm hoping this card would liberate me from that. Not that I expect to never have to render anything in a FCP timeline again of course.

 

[Ben Holmes]

I could be wrong, Jesse, but I think you may misunderstand the use of these cards. Their function is not to make your system more powerful, or more able to cope with 2K footage (that's down to the choice of codec, processor and very much the drive array you are using), but to provide audio/video input and output - for example sending an HD-SDI signal to a monitor.

In other words, if your system is struggling with 2k now, the issue is either the choice of codec, the system power or your drive array. Buying a video card will not solve that issue in the most part.

RED Rocket, at an approximate $5000 WILL accelerate r3d decoding. You'll still need a properly specced system with a decent drive array.

More info on your system would help people help you.

Ben

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I could be wrong, Jesse, but I think you may misunderstand the use of these cards.

I should've seen this coming. I know enough about video editing to be efficient at it, but the majority of my knowledge is about the software used. I've still got a great deal to learn about the hardware aspect of it. So yes, I think you're right. I may have been mistaken in my assumptions about the use of the aforementioned card.

I guess what I need to know is, what's an affordable card that doesn't just do video capture and output, but is also an editing card.

Here's more detailed specs on my Mac Pro:

2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
6 GB 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM
L2 Cache: 12MB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Bus: PCIe
VRAM (total): 512 MB

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What type of storage do you have with that Mac Pro? If you're dealing with 2K (presumably ProRes), that system should have no trouble handling a couple streams. You would probably do better to get yourself a nice RAID system instead of an editing card.

The Kona3 will accelerate some functions for ProRes and a few other QT codecs and can provide hardware acceleration to certain layering tasks and transitions, it has a hardware keyer, etc.. I haven't used a Kona card in a while, but AJA also has their own codecs. But if you're just looking to just speed up editing in general and don't need the I/O functions or hardware scaling, etc.. And since you're using Crimson, which means going back to REDCINE, etc.. for a lot of your processing, I don't think the Kona or similar card is the right choice for you. It seems to me that your money would be better spent in upgrading the workstation you already have or finding different ways to make it work for you.

You also mention that you're using Crimson workflow... If that's so, why are you trying to edit in 2K?

If you're editing by the RED QT proxy files, no editing card is going to speed that up. The proxies are just a QT header that feeds the R3D file through a QT codec front-end. Once again looking to RED ROCKET to address this issue.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

What type of storage do you have with that Mac Pro?

I don't have any kind of RAID setup. I've just got 3 internal HD's. Haven't gotten around to buying the 4th one yet.

As for editing in 2K, I was merely posing a scenario to get a response on how either of the cards would perform under those circumstances.

However, once I roundtrip the .xml file back into FCP from Crimson, and open up the timeline with my color-corrected footage in 2K for final output, the system struggles to playback the footage in 2K.

I've also considered upgrading to 10 GB of RAM.

But if you're just looking to just speed up editing in general and don't need the I/O functions or hardware scaling, etc..

Actually, I do need the I/O functions. Hardware scaling... maybe. Would the Blackmagic card mentioned in my first post provide real-time playback in FCP?

Thanks for the quick responses. This info is really helping me out!

I don't own a RED camera, I was just lucky enough to shoot a short film on one. I barely had the money to get this editing system in the first place. Despite how unrealistic it may seem at times, I'm just trying to find an affordable solution to make my editing system a little faster, even if it's just in terms of rendering. So just know that any advice you guys give is greatly appreciated!

 

[arturo]

Hi guys, I apologize if this thread is not the proper place, but since you're talking about the real use of the cards, here goes my question:
I own a BMD 6.7.2 connected to my MacPro 8 core, and I'm trying to send 2K ProRes edited video from FCP trough the Black Magic, to an HD TV. The video out is set at 1080p 8bit at 29.97, it's the only preset that seems to play at all - and even then, all I get is some freeze frames when the resolution outputted is more than HD. Where's the problem? Thanks for your attention!

Arturo Querzoli

 

[Craig Parkes]

I don't have any kind of RAID setup. I've just got 3 internal HD's. Haven't gotten around to buying the 4th one yet.

I can almost guarantee you, that with your setup, NOT Having a Raid array is you bottle neck to playback, especially if it's on a single stream.

From a non professional background, not understanding the importance of a RAID is pretty common, but these days, with CPU and ram specs so high in out of the box machines, it's probably the number one bottle neck for 'homebrew' editors.

Fortunately, setting up a software RAID on a Macpro is really easy, and will only cost you the HDD's to do it. Put your existing HDD's (other than your system drive) in external enclosures, buy two or more identical drives for a media drive and arrange that in Raid 0 for oprimum speed. As Raid 0 is inherently not redundant it then pays to back up media onto external drives/a seperate internal drive, but always work off the fastest array if speed is your bottleneck.

 

[Are Pilskog]

Fortunately, setting up a software RAID on a Macpro is really easy, and will only cost you the HDD's to do it. Put your existing HDD's (other than your system drive) in external enclosures, buy two or more identical drives for a media drive and arrange that in Raid 0 for oprimum speed. As Raid 0 is inherently not redundant it then pays to back up media onto external drives/a seperate internal drive, but always work off the fastest array if speed is your bottleneck.

This I didn't know...
and I guess I need some more info to understand
So to get Raid 0 on a Mac I buy two identical drives. Is this internal or external drives?
And how do you arrange them in Raid 0? Is this something you can do inside the mac OS X? No RAID-card needed?

Thanks, Are