EASY EDITING RED original FILES

[LEON]

Dear Rob, Jim, Graeme, Stuart,

Thank you in advance for the camera and we know that it is not
enough to create films.
We need to manipulate the files created by the Red camera
with the ease of DV editing in FCP.
Later, we will we change color, crop, adjust, filter, change formats for distribution, sales, printing.
BUT FIRST we need A SIMPLE WAY to edit those files.

Why should we first transfer to some lower quality or heavier medium ?
The original has full qualities and is not heavy, what prohibits editing ?

Thank you

 

[Thomas Mathai]

DV is only easy NOW. If you were editing DV back in 96, it wasn't easy.

4k will get there, but not at the moment.

How long do you think it will be before a 16 core Mac with 32 GB of RAM becomes as affordable as a Quad core?

 

[LEON]

DV is only easy NOW. If you were editing DV back in 96, it wasn't easy.
4k will get there, but not at the moment.

How long do you think it will be before a 16 core Mac with 32 GB of RAM becomes as affordable as a Quad core?

I slighlighty disagree with you, DV, back in 97 was easy to edit, there was no transfer to be made first. Maybe some help of Promax helped, this is true.

And if you speak about affordable, after spending $+-30.000 (+ lenses) for acquisition of those delicious 4K wawelets, i sure am ready to buy something to EASE work and not to go back to the dark ages ( I did negative cutting
in my youth and two inchs editing tapes with scissors but these days are over) THINK SIMPLE ( i know this is complex !)

 

[John Tissavary]

I slighlighty disagree with you, DV, back in 97 was easy to edit, there was no transfer to be made first. Maybe some help of Promax helped, this is true.

And if you speak about affordable, after spending $+-30.000 (+ lenses) for acquisition of those delicious 4K wawelets, i sure am ready to buy something to EASE work and not to go back to the dark ages ( I did negative cutting
in my youth and two inchs editing tapes with scissors but these days are over) THINK SIMPLE ( i know this is complex !)

I think you might be misunderstanding the workflow a bit.... it's nearly exactly what you are indicating.

Open RedAlert (or in future RedCine) and generate (nearly instantly) QT wrappers. Edit to hearts content in FCP. It's that simple. If you want 4k, sorry, no FCP right now, but I assume it's coming in the future.

Since there are precious few outlets for 4k right now, it is more practical to online or conform/master to 2k. The nice thing is that your FCP edit can generate an EDL to be conformed to 4k at a later date when 4k becomes distributable. Just import the EDL into Scratch and you're good to go.


regards,

jt

 

[Cail Young]

he original has full qualities and is not heavy, what prohibits editing ?

The same thing that held back FCP from cutting HDV natively - the decoder couldn't function in realtime to the performance degree demanded by FCP. In simpler terms - the decompression was too slow. It will get quicker. Just as FCP will quite happily chew through HDV on most systems these days, it will chew through 2K REDCODE RAW - but not until the decode gets much faster!

 

[Rob Lohman]

Hi Leon,

I'm not following you at all. You can drop the QuickTime reference movies straight into Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 (supports RT integration) and up.

These directly decode from the source files. Am I missing anything?

 

[Thomas Mathai]

I slighlighty disagree with you, DV, back in 97 was easy to edit, there was no transfer to be made first. Maybe some help of Promax helped, this is true.

And if you speak about affordable, after spending $+-30.000 (+ lenses) for acquisition of those delicious 4K wawelets, i sure am ready to buy something to EASE work and not to go back to the dark ages ( I did negative cutting
in my youth and two inchs editing tapes with scissors but these days are over) THINK SIMPLE ( i know this is complex !)

Back in 97, there was limited options for native DV capture.

There was MotoDV which barely worked if you didn't have your configurations right.

Premiere was still at 4.2 and even Premiere 5 was clunky with DV.

The only workaround was to capture through an analog breakout box into an Avid, Media 100 or similar system.

I cursed Premiere a lot in those days.

Final Cut Pro was still being developed by Macromedia as KeyGrip.

 

[Thomas Mathai]

Hi Leon,

I'm not following you at all. You can drop the QuickTime reference movies straight into Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 (supports RT integration) and up.

These directly decode from the source files. Am I missing anything?

I think he means editing the native r3d files.

 

[LEON]

Hi Leon,

I'm not following you at all. You can drop the QuickTime reference movies straight into Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 (supports RT integration) and up.

These directly decode from the source files. Am I missing anything?

Yes, i did not express clearly enough, I wish I could edit from the
ORIGINAL NATIVE RED FILES.

 

[PaulClements]

Yes, i did not express clearly enough, I wish I could edit the
ORIGINAL NATIVE RED FILES.

You will be able to in FCP in the future, at least that's what the apple website said. Give it time.

Paul

 

[LEON]

Thank you Paul,
I "ll wait, as usual, untill final day comes !
But the EDL and go to finish in Scratch is just not sexy at all !
Buying Red was supposed to give more freedom or quality but not tedious or expensive postprod !
Have a nice day and thank you for answering. (I like reading your posts since months, you seem to rather put oil in matters rather than sand, pleasure meeting you !)

 

[donatello b]

"Buying Red was supposed to give more freedom or quality but not tedious or expensive postprod "

when you placed your oder for RED 609 ( probably summer of 2006) 4k was uncompressed !!!!! i don't recall them making promises about cheap 4k uncompressed editing/post... today RED has delivered more affordable 4k ( shooting thru post) then they promised back in 2006 ...

so exactly how were you planning to edit/confrom/CC 4k back in summer 2006 when you placed your order ??

 

[Rainer Fritz]

Would it be possible to integrate REDCODE to Apple's Color......
that would be great .....

thx

 

[LEON]

"Buying Red was supposed to give more freedom or quality but not tedious or expensive postprod "

when you placed your oder for RED 609 ( probably summer of 2006) 4k was uncompressed !!!!! i don't recall them making promises about cheap 4k uncompressed editing/post... today RED has delivered more affordable 4k ( shooting thru post) then they promised back in 2006 ...

so exactly how were you planning to edit/confrom/CC 4k back in summer 2006 when you placed your order ??

My dear , at that time , I did not know people like you could love to write just for the sake of existing, now I know .
Thank you so much for the lesson,
Your humble idiot slave.
PS: Please forgive me to hope !
and do not forget: things and specs can change ! for the best !!!!!

 

[Nathan Buxton]

Leon, you are a little bit misguided here. editing the ORIGINAL files would be pretty stupid dont you think? wouldnt you want to keep those for backup/masters?.. not only that but theres no way you can be serious about this... RED has no control over what apple develops for FCP.

 

[LEON]

Leon, you are a little bit misguided here. editing the ORIGINAL files would be pretty stupid dont you think? wouldnt you want to keep those for backup/masters?.. not only that but theres no way you can be serious about this... RED has no control over what apple develops for FCP.

Are you editor ? Do you load your disks with material straight from tape to disks and "edit" in a timeline, that is all I am asking.
You are right I want the ORIGINAL to remain intact but I do not like the obligation of conforming, maybe I do not express myself clearly, sorry.

 

[Nathan Buxton]

the problem with the logic is.. there is no master tape in the red workflow. if you were able to modify the .r3d files that would be the end of it.. once they are modified they're done. So in a sense you HAVE to export it to a different format (or the same format just a copied file)..


What you want is to be able to edit with the REDCODE codec... which may be in the works in the future but as i said that is not up to RED, its up to the editing software developer.

 

[R. Gonzales]

RED has no control over what apple develops for FCP.

Nathan,
Don’t you think that if Red opened up their platform by providing a development kit for all 3rd party developers for their r3d files, post work might be easier and cheaper? Right now there is a monopoly building on the ability to access those r3d files by Assimilate, or am I misunderstanding the current situation?


Method

 

[R. Gonzales]

Nathan,
Don’t you think that if Red opened up their platform by providing a development kit for all 3rd party developers for their r3d files, post work might be easier and cheaper? Right now there is a monopoly building on the ability to access those r3d files by Assimilate, or am I misunderstanding the current situation?

 

[Nathan Buxton]

Yes i do believe that 100%. I also believe it to be beneficial to exit beta-testing stage before you contract other companies to develop extensive software based on your codec.

Basically the only point I';m trying to get across is WAIT. There are perfectly acceptable workflows available now (acceptable compared to the workflow of film; RED is no miniDV workflow and dont ever expect it to be) that use file formats that are perfectly acceptable.


Editing native in REDCODE will be fantastic.. but nobody even has their hands on a current-spec camera.. hold your horses