Earlier version of MC... will it work for me?

[figure8]

Hi. I'm dealing with an older version of media composer and am wondering how far it will get me. I suppose this is a question for MichaelP but any help would be appreciated.

I'm supervising the post for a short shot on Red where the editors are using MC 2.7.2 (on PC). The post house doing the online tells me all they need is an EDL and the original R3D files, so can MC 2.7.2 export the required EDL or do they need to upgrade? Also, are there any issues with 2.7.2 taking in an ALE via XML from Redcine?

Alternatively, I've got 3.0.5 on my Mac and am wondering if I do Red Rushes ALE into my Mac (where i'll also autosync on TC), then transfer the Avid project over to their system for offline (and if necessary transfer it back for export) will that mess things up?

Thanks.

 

[Jörgen Persson]

Hi. I'm dealing with an older version of media composer and am wondering how far it will get me. I suppose this is a question for MichaelP but any help would be appreciated.

I'm supervising the post for a short shot on Red where the editors are using MC 2.7.2 (on PC). The post house doing the online tells me all they need is an EDL and the original R3D files, so can MC 2.7.2 export the required EDL or do they need to upgrade? Also, are there any issues with 2.7.2 taking in an ALE via XML from Redcine?

Alternatively, I've got 3.0.5 on my Mac and am wondering if I do Red Rushes ALE into my Mac (where i'll also autosync on TC), then transfer the Avid project over to their system for offline (and if necessary transfer it back for export) will that mess things up?

Thanks.

You should be pretty safe if you use the EDL 16 template at the metacheater site >> http://web.me.com/jabezolssen/metacheater/main.html when exporting the EDL. That way you get unique names for the files and not just the reel (A001).

How are you creating the ALEs on the PC?

 

[M Most]

You should be pretty safe if you use the EDL 16 template at the metacheater site >> http://web.me.com/jabezolssen/metacheater/main.html when exporting the EDL. That way you get unique names for the files and not just the reel (A001).

Many systems will not parse an EDL with a 16 place reel name. Further, at least some systems (Scratch included) only use the first four places for the reel name even if more are included. The R3d files identify the reel ID as those first four places in their metadata as well. The best way I've found to ensure the most information available in a format that most conforming systems can understand and use is to use the four place reel ID as defined by the R3d file, and use either the Comments or Description column in an Avid bin to create any custom clip names, leaving the original Name column alone (it will already contain the original file name, assuming you're using a properly generated ALE). When the EDL is generated, enable comments to have the file names included. Most conforming systems will use that as an additional key for matching up to the original files.

 

[MichaelP]

The EDL template is also available on the Avid resources tab of www.avid.com/red.

Depending on how the metadata came in, a standard EDL can use 4 or 8 characters (CMX3600) or a modified one if it supports the full 16. As mmost mentions, applying the full file name into a comments column can be added as a *comment in the EDL. What you don't mention is what online/mastering system they are using.

Michael

 

[figure8]

Thanks. I spoke with the post house today and it turns out they're going to use the EDL (which will be red 16) to reconform the R3D files and generate a DPX sequence themselves for a feed into DS (and possibly a grade). I don't know how exactly they're gonna go about doing that, should i? They've done it before a lot and didn't seem too worried about it, all they asked for was a red 16 EDL.

What concerns me most is that MC 2.7.2 will be able to handle all the metadata needed for the EDL export, and which method i should use to get the footage into their machine, either :

(a) on my Mac, Red Rushes - ALE + QT wrappers - import into Avid 3.0.5. Then transfer the project over to their PC for use in Avid 2.7.2

(b) on their PC, Redcine - ALE (via XML/XSLT) + DNxHD encoded QTs - import into Avid 2.7.2.

Thanks.

 

[MichaelP]

I would go with (a) as it removes a step from the process and allows you to select the DNxHD data rate of your choice. As far as Metadata, the older systems will carry the metadata as needed. In the case of REDrushes, the full 16char is tracked in the Lab or Cam roll columns while the short file name is carried in the TAPE. When generating the EDL, use LAB or CAM as your source and you are good to go.

Michael

 

[M Most]

(a) on my Mac, Red Rushes - ALE + QT wrappers - import into Avid 3.0.5. Then transfer the project over to their PC for use in Avid 2.7.2

This should work as long as you're using 1080p. If you're using 720 or SD, you need to use Metacheater and use the NTSC project option, because MC will treat 720/24 as 720/60 (the only valid 720 video format), and 525/24 as 525/60i (similar reason). You will need to do the "duplicate start TC to TC24" workaround to get an accurate 24 frame EDL.

 

[figure8]

This should work as long as you're using 1080p. If you're using 720 or SD, you need to use Metacheater and use the NTSC project option, because MC will treat 720/24 as 720/60 (the only valid 720 video format), and 525/24 as 525/60i (similar reason). You will need to do the "duplicate start TC to TC24" workaround to get an accurate 24 frame EDL.

It was shot at 25fps, and i'll be doing it as 1080p/25, so no issues there.

I would go with (a) as it removes a step from the process and allows you to select the DNxHD data rate of your choice. As far as Metadata, the older systems will carry the metadata as needed. In the case of REDrushes, the full 16char is tracked in the Lab or Cam roll columns while the short file name is carried in the TAPE. When generating the EDL, use LAB or CAM as your source and you are good to go.

Michael

Thanks michael.

One final thing - i've noticed the file names i get imported to avid are a bit weird when i use red rushes - it appends strange characters onto the start of the clip name. It seems to be more a red rushes issue - when i open the ALE with a text editor these weird characters are present in the name column. For example, clip B009_C001_1105JN.mov is named ÂB009_C001_1105JN.mov. When i import the ale in avid, it changes the name again - i've attached a screenshot. What gives? Can i edit safely with these clips?

 

[MichaelP]

Interesting... what OS version and language are you on? Does the original ALE file have those characters in it? Try a MetaCheater ALE creation to see if you are having the same issues.

Michael

 

[figure8]

Interesting... what OS version and language are you on? Does the original ALE file have those characters in it? Try a MetaCheater ALE creation to see if you are having the same issues.

Michael

I'm on Mac OS 4.10.11 / English. I've attached both the red rushes ale and the ale i made with metacheater (using the QT wrappers made from red rushes). Would it be as simple as opening the ale in a text editor and doing a find and replace to get rid of the  character?

 

[MichaelP]

Sure, you can do a search/replace in a text editor on the ALE before importing. Make sure it replaces only those characters though. i don't know why it is doing that though.

Michael

 

[akis]

I have seen this also in OSX 10.4.11 but not in 10.5.5.
Our editors usually rename this field anyway so it's not a major issue for us.

 

[MichaelP]

As long as the full file name is correctly labeled in the CAmroll or Labroll column you should be fine.

Michael

 

[figure8]

Thanks for the replies. Well, its in and looking good, I just need to sync the audio. The problem now is that the audio wasn't timecode linked to the camera, so I'm wondering if its ok to autosync based on in points? I think i read somewhere that it has be done with TC, otherwise the EDL can't track back to the master clips from the newly created synced clips when it goes to online, is this right?