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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Duclos 11-16mm Lens

Maz Mawlawi said:
Awesome! Quick question; Does it vignette at all shooting at 5K and if yes at what focal length?
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According to M. Duclos, it does cover the whole Epic sensor; early versions of the lens may require a tweak to fit on the Epic PL mount. Maybe M. Seymour can verify the coverage part.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55388&highlight=Duclos+11-16mm+epic&page=3

Beautiful shots, BTW. Tokina glass is sharp! Perhaps keeping the zoom range fairly small is what allows the lens to have near prime-like characteristics.
 
Don't quote me, no coffee yet, but I think Seymour and Jarred also mentioned it covers the full 5k sensor at 11mm. Sounds like some Duclos version just need a very small tweak on the mount so that it can slip into place.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Don't quote me, no coffee yet, but I think Seymour and Jarred mentioned it covers the full 5k sensor at 11mm. Sounds like some Duclos version just need a very small tweak on the mount so that it can slip into place.
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Correct! it covers just fine. There is a small issue with the slots in the PL mount on our conversion not fitting over the pin on the PL mount of the camera. A quick adjustment.
 
The 11-16 sure is a sweet little piece of glass, had finally a chance to play with a little the other day while at ET, testing out our EPIC M8
on Tonaci's ATOM rig, with Pedro, and they showed me the 11-16, while I did love the 14-24, the 11-16 is a little wonder of a lens,
and SOOOO wide!!


Great Job Duclos!!
 
Purple fringing, lack thereof.

Purple fringing, lack thereof.

First of all - this is not FUD. I can see why many shooters love the 11-16, and thanks for posting the shots to back up your opinions. But I have a stills background and the Tokina has a bad rep among stills shooters for CA. You can see that in Roberto's shot of the Chevy - the foliage in the background is filled with purple fringing, and that is exactly the kind of shot where I would expect CA's to be at their worst.

What's amazing to me, is that is the ONLY shot where CA is a visible issue. Other shots in this thread were not that challenging regarding CA, but two shots from Mike Seymour's thread are giving me pause. The first is the still of the wide shot from the forest floor - I assume with the Duclos 11-16 - with only post-process blending of the +5 HDRx™™ track. The other is the motion tunnel shot where it looks like there is enough contrast around the background trees to provoke CA's.

So my questions regarding the lack of CA with the Duclos version and the reason(s) why:

1. Is this a property of the Mysterium sensor? Is the CA actually in large part due to sensor blooming, which Epic has under control better than most DSLR's?

2. Is this a property of the Duclos version? Has it been hand-picked and/or had elements aligned to minimize these types of problems?

3. Is it a problem that operators have learned to mask by stopping down, controlling highlights and avoiding high-contrast elements like the tree in Roberto's still? But this doesn't explain the lack of CA in Mike Seymour's forest shot.

4. Has it been removed in post? If so, I'd like to know how this is done in motion, as it's hard enough with stills. Again, this doesn't explain the forest shot, since the only post processing was the HDRx blend.

5. Is there some property of HDRx that minimizes CA? I could see this, since the highlights will not be blown - one source of purple fringing due to CAs or sensor blooming.

I used to have a Nikon 12-24 that had a similar rep for CA, and it was bothersome in practical use. This lens is very interesting and before I try it out I'd like some other opinions. Thanks!
 
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The Optitek Pro Lock mount for the R1 has an iris ring that controls the aperature of all Nikon lenses to include the "G" models and lenses such as the Tokina 11-16mm.
 
Are you happy with it? What would you recommend as an economic tilt/shift lens?
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+1 . Their website says they are out of stock but very interested. From your picture does it have a Nikon mount on the back?
 
I used very aggressive curves on that shot to get the most out of a single exposure on my 7D. No lights or bounce either. So maybe the low level of CA is exaggerated.

Who is saying it has CA issues? People that have tested it? People that tested other older Tokinas? People that are used to shooting on the best Leicas? I think it is a very clean lens. Definitely worth taking a close look at one for yourself.

Steve Wake said:
2. Is this a property of the Duclos version? Has it been hand-picked and/or had elements aligned to minimize these types of problems?
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As far as I know they don't mix and match elements. But I bet they will turn away a bad apple if they see one.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Who is saying it has CA issues? People that have tested it? People that tested other older Tokinas? People that are used to shooting on the best Leicas? I think it is a very clean lens. Definitely worth taking a close look at one for yourself.
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Here are reviews from a couple of still equipment review sites. I cite these because their results with equipment I own or have owned very closely correspond with my own experience.

http://www.lenstip.com/165.5-Lens_r...X_AF_11-16_mm_f_2.8_Chromatic_Aberration.html

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/379-tokina_1116_28_canon?start=1

I've shot a lot more stills than video, and I've used relatively much higher quality stills equipment than video equipment. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around the different evaluations of still equipment on this site than what I'm used to when the same equipment is used for stills.

Of course, I realize the only performance that matters to me is performance on my own equipment. Since I expect Scarlet Fixed to be delayed - maybe in a major way - I'm looking at expanding my D7000 kit in ways I hadn't planned on.
 
Hi Steve Wake!

um actually, These are VERY positive articles (see below) and with this lens... CA is very manageable wth filters and the artice DID say: "Looking at the graph above, we can say the 11-16 mm outperforms its older buddies" but I say "hmph, specs - shmecks, don't get all verklempt"... just LOOK at the gorgeous images when you toss this fine piece of kit on the M-X and EPIC... the sexy pictures dont lie.
FACT: The Tokina 11-16mm is a killer piece of kit that makes tasty tasty images broherum -

1.Photozone article was VERY positive

"Distortions - Surprisingly Tokina managed to keep the level of distortions quite well under control. At 11mm there're still fairly pronounced barrel distortions (2.1%) but this is still comparatively low for such a lens. The problem decreases when zooming out towards the long end - at 14mm the barrel distortions are hardly objectionable anymore (1%) and they're almost negligible at 16mm (0.5%)."

B. MTF (resolution) - The resolution figures of the Tokina are highly impressive and the best that we've seen in this class.The lens did not show a single significant weakness throughout the range. The center resolution is excellent, even outstanding towards the long end, and the borders are easily on a very good level at large apertures and excellent around the sweet spot at f/5.6.


I would love to hear David Mullen's thoughts on this lens... for me. CA is super manageable and the near lack of aspherical aberration at 11mm is stunning.. its super light and the DUCLOS mod... well Matthew Duclos and family are badass lens technicians and artisans... they knocked this one out of the park.

MATTHEW! DUCLOS - PLEASE SELL ME AN 80-200 MOD - to compliment my kit. (thanks!)
 
Sure, the Tokinas have medium to high levels of CA. Most still reviewers give it good marks anyway, though, and it's arguably less important for video, than for stills.

It might not come up as much on Red raw footage, as it tends to be shot "flat", with contrast added later in post. CA tends to occur in contrasty footage, on boundaries that separate light & dark regions of the image.
 
Yea, I suppose there is some CA close to wide open, but I don't mind it, especially because this is a personal lens, so I am always considering how little I payed for it. And you can't ignore the focal range! :) 11 is freaggin' wide even on ~S35, and it covers 5k M-X! So even wider! Put it on a FF35 sensor and it covers at about ~15mm wish is just as crazy for the cost. But even if you ignored the cost, what are the alternatives at 11mm? There is the 14mm f/2.8 Canon which covers FF35, so a only a bit "practically wider" as the Tokina with 1mm difference at FF35 coverage, right? Not a direct comparison, but it makes sense to me. How much is that Canon? At about $2,200 it is x3.6 more money than the Tokina, which is a very short zoom but a zoom nonetheless. For the cost of that Canon prime you can almost afford a professionally re-housed PL version with a manual iris and gears. :) And the 14mm does show some CA as well, not sure which has more but if we are careful we can get rid of it on RAW stuff. I think Steve was just trying to make me feel bad so that I went back to that shot and finished cleaning it up. ;)
 
Steve Wake said:
Is this a property of the Duclos version? Has it been hand-picked and/or had elements aligned to minimize these types of problems?
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We do actually take extra measures to adjust the lenses as needed to obtain peak performance. The Tokina 11-16mm is one of the only modern still photo lenses that includes adjustments for optical centering and air spacing. We use the adjustments to their fullest. It is indeed time consuming and obviously something that Tokina doesn't invest too much in to keep cost down.
 
Matthew Duclos said:
We do actually take extra measures to adjust the lenses as needed to obtain peak performance. The Tokina 11-16mm is one of the only modern still photo lenses that includes adjustments for optical centering and air spacing. We use the adjustments to their fullest. It is indeed time consuming and obviously something that Tokina doesn't invest too much in to keep cost down.
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How much would this service cost for Stock versions? I'll call.

What are the likely/most noticeable benefits one would see on a sample that needed a tune up?
 
Matthew Duclos said:
We do actually take extra measures to adjust the lenses as needed to obtain peak performance. The Tokina 11-16mm is one of the only modern still photo lenses that includes adjustments for optical centering and air spacing. We use the adjustments to their fullest. It is indeed time consuming and obviously something that Tokina doesn't invest too much in to keep cost down.
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Thanks for the answer! Good to know higher performance is possible.

Roberto, looks like you have a stock lens with typical performance. I'm glad you posted so I knew I wasn't crazy. I wasn't trying to be critical at all. Please understand I am seriously diplomatically challenged.
 
Follow-up questions:

Matthew: Can/do you make similar adjustments with the 70-200? I had a 70-200 VR1 that was noticeably less sharp than other 70-200's I compared it with - though still very good. I sent it to Nikon and they said it was within specs. It would be nice to know that yours is opitimized.

Anybody with Epic and a CA-prone lens (apparently not the Duclos 11-16): Does use of HDRx reduce CA at all? It would reduce exposure specifically in those areas most prone to CA - high contrast edges where the highlight is blown or near-blown. It would be nice to hear something like "I could see the CA disappear as I moved the HDR blend slider."
 
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