Dual Shotgun Mics for Stereo Voice recordings

[Joe Taylor]

Going to be filming a short western in a month and considering the benefits of recording with dual shotgun mics for stereo recordings. Can any experienced sound recordists chime in on whether or not of this a worthwhile effort? Simply looking for the best audio possible.

 

[D Fuller]

If you want the best sound possible, hire a good sound recordist and his gear, your mixer can create stereo imaging in the mix.

I can't imagine a situatoin where dual shotgun miss would give you decent stereo imaging. Add to that, if you move the mic and it's not on the camera, the stereo imaging will be "out of sync" with what you see. If it is on the camera--well that's about the worse place to pick up good sound from. If you put them on a boom, stereo imaging will be in the wrong place. If you fix them somewhere, everybody will be off-mic. If you need to record two actors, will you have two sets of stereo mics?

 

[PatrickFaith]

There's a couple of threads in gearslutz on the m/s recording for things like this (shotgun with little figure eight on top).

[ edit ... i.e. Schoeps CMIT M/S Stereo Set with Shotgun Microphone, I btw went with the schoeps double ortf surround set, which I love ... but it's almost impossible to put that on a pole so can't handle moving actors, nice thing on the M/S is you can always just not use the figure 8 and you still have excellent sound from the single shotgun.]

 

[D Fuller]

There's a couple of threads in gearslutz on the m/s recording for things like this (shotgun with little figure eight on top).

[ edit ... i.e. Schoeps CMIT M/S Stereo Set with Shotgun Microphone, I btw went with the schoeps double ortf surround set, which I love ... but it's almost impossible to put that on a pole so can't handle moving actors, nice thing on the M/S is you can always just not use the figure 8 and you still have excellent sound from the single shotgun.]

Yes, there are situations in which binaural and surround recording are wonderful. And I love what you can do woth them appropriate situations, but I just can't see a set with dialog being one of them. Especially a western, where I would expect much of the dialog to be in settings where people are not very close to each other (in sound terms). Open exteriors, horses, all kinds of things to keep people at a bit of distance from each other and add ambient noise that will want to be balanced.

 

[Todd T]

There are no benefits using two shotgun mics in a stereo configuration for a narrative. You need to get an isolated track for every actor's dialog, then in post, use the mixer pan settings to place each track in the appropriate "Stereo" location.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I agree with several of the comments above. Stereo dialogue recording as an idea goes back to 1953 and Fox's early CinemaScope productions. They actually had a boom mic setup with a stereo microphone (sometimes 2 booms) to give the dialogue directionality. The technique proved problematic and they eventually opted to just record all dialogue in mono by 1957-1958 or so and just pan the dialogue as needed in post.

I personally think it's a very bad idea to record dialogue in stereo, and if anything you'll wind up with all kinds of matching, noise, ambience, presence, phase, and perspective problems in editing, since every angle will have a different relative atmosphere and balance. With mono, you can at least manage the signal to the point, using EQ and room tone and so on. I am a proponent of giving the post crew as many options as possible, particular using multitrack recording and iso wireless lavs on every speaking actor when it's practical and necessary.

My advice would be to schedule a meeting with a very good re-recording mixer or post sound supervisor and ask for their comments. Don't try to re-invent the wheel here. This would also be a good question to ask in the Post section of the Gearslutz Forum, where many re-recording mixers and sound editors hang out.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Thank you so much for all the comments and suggestions. Single Mono mic it will be. We have a Sennheiser MKH-416.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Thank you so much for all the comments and suggestions. Single Mono mic it will be. We have a Sennheiser MKH-416.

You may find one microphone will not do it. I've had productions where I've had to use 7 or 8 different microphones. As one example, the 416 is not ideal for interiors, and you may need a longer, more directional shotgun for noisy (or distant) exteriors.

Don't overlook the idea of using concealed wireless lavs on the actors. BTW, westerns are extremely difficult to record, because of the amount of noise of the horses, the saddles, period costumes, plus the exteriors. Cars, planes, sirens, all the noises of modern life are a huge problem with historical pieces.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Hello Marc, We will for sure be recoding with lavs on both actors. The first night is a campfire scene and since one actor is horribly wounded, there will not be much movement. We fortunate to find a secluded ranch on the Cali/Nevada border that is far from any road traffic or flight pattens.

I appreciate every ones advice. This is a film I have had in the works for more than two years and feel that time is finally right. This should be a great experience.

For those interested, this is "trailer" more of a promotional spot we shot exclusively for the fund raising campaign. https://vimeo.com/105448633

 

[Marc Wielage]

Hello Marc, We will for sure be recoding with lavs on both actors. The first night is a campfire scene and since one actor is horribly wounded, there will not be much movement. We fortunate to find a secluded ranch on the Cali/Nevada border that is far from any road traffic or flight pattens.

That will help a lot. There's a famous story told on the JWSound group about a location scout for a Western film where they checked out an area during the week, and it was great. On Saturday morning, they started setting up all the gear, and about 5 dozen motorcycles showed up and started roaring all over the place. It turned out this was a gathering spot for several bike gangs. Needless to say, this proved problematic for sound.

It's very hard to shoot historically-accurate stories in places that have the right sets, the right look, are away from all the noise of modern life, and can fulfill the illusion of being back in time 100 or 200 or 300 years ago. At least now, you have the benefit of digital VFX to cover up jet trails, tire tracks, TV antennas, and so on.