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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC2. Unified.

Jarred Land said:
It's not about the money. And that's the irony, because that's why people are upset.
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Ofcourse it is. If it wasn't you would've announced the price drop beforehand. But that would cost you money.
I can't believe anyone is buying this BS.
 
Clark Dunbar said:
Mike, would love to see lower pricing on the media and accessories.
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I think the lowering of prices associated with the DSMC2 Unified approach is great on many different levels, and I commend Jared's comments in this thread. Although I understand Red's decision to use proprietary media (quality control/reliability), it's tough not to conclude that the (high) prices of mini-mags are largely due to the fact that they are proprietary. How about allowing users to use external raw recorders via HDMI or SDI (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?143313-6G-SDI-on-future-RED-Camera)? Regardless of what the solution is, lower media prices would be greatly appreciated by everyone. Media costs are a significant part of the equation when it comes to buying/owning a Red camera.
 
jordan levy said:
so that's interesting, the Gemini will be the most viable camera in my part of the industry then. There was a brief moment when post houses were, hey 6k? cool. now its like 6k, no!
my limit in broadcast tv and commercial production is 4k, and even that is just for netflix and vfx at the moment. as well, 35mm format is what i was born into and love, that how i see and thats how i shoot.
so i guess the next closest is scarlet and raven? or where does monstro fall at 4k?

i also think that, and i said it before raven "4k for all" people cant be left behind in all this, that was the marketing pitch with 4k for all, take the leap and you will be taken care of. i think a possibility to have a raven or scarlet size sensor in a weapon body, or a path to gemini somehow would only help RED to unify the last body left out.

btw, had to show, a memory of 9 years ago today shooting red ones in a 3D rig for the Yogi Bear theatrical trailer, haha!

yogibear3d_zpsaqasy4cj.jpg
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HA.. even funnier is that DIT is ME sticking my tongue out.. I remember that job mainly because it was up above santa barbara somewhere and the catering truck got stuck on the way out (I THINK)
 
David J. Buchanan said:
I actually don't think accessories should be lowered. Externally recording fine, but if you're saying that ARRI aks are cheap then we must be looking at two different company brands.
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I’m not saying Arri AKS is cheaper, just that when the costs are comparable I’d rather own an Arri for many reasons. That said, if RED’s options were less expensive and it was a substantial savings to get into a RED it would be a closer consideration.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
HA.. even funnier is that DIT is ME sticking my tongue out.. I remember that job mainly because it was up above santa barbara somewhere and the catering truck got stuck on the way out (I THINK)
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haha, wow! what's up Zakaree!!! yup, i remember the truck that got stuck, it was a big production dilemma that i was trying to ignore.
 
Carlos Garcia-Diaz said:
Under the section titled "Can I upgrade to one of the new cameras?" Scarlet-W is listed there. Maybe they're still working on those details.
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I was asking if you can specifically upgrade the Scarlet-W to the Helium 8k. I am aware that the only upgrade for Scarlet-W is the GEMINI.
 
Jarred Land said:
Stefano... the new 39k is the upgrade price is only for DSMC2 unified owners. for existing Helium Weapon owners like you, it is still the old price.
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Jarred, the kid in me can't just stop looking at the other kid's new upgrade gift, o daddy loves Epic-W more, pleaseeeee show me (WH) some love too daddy. lol
 
Since the RED One came out, I've wanted to own a RED Camera. Shortly after the Raven was announced, I placed a pre-order and started putting asides funds to fulfill my dream. During the wait, the Epic-W was announced and this company absolutely blew me away - they offered me "owners" pricing because I had a pre-order. I was able to start my RED journey with an amazing new, cutting edge sensor that shot 8K at $10,000 less than I SHOULD have paid. The upgrade to Weapon internals for only $5,000 is another amazing gift that I am extremely grateful for. All my friends want to jump ship and move to ARRI, but with the amazing generosity and transparency RED has consistently shown, I am going to be a RED owner and loyal customer for the rest of my life. Thank you Jim, Jarred and the whole RED team. It saddens me to see all the complaining and unappreciative messages on this thread. I truly am grateful for all that you have done, not only for me but the entire industry.
 
jordan levy said:
haha, wow! what's up Zakaree!!! yup, i remember the truck that got stuck, it was a big production dilemma that i was trying to ignore.
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The catering truck getting stuck is up there with the principal talent catching the flu!
 
Okay. Unified. Thats a great idea and a futureproof concept.

BUT

Who did think about the new prices for Weapon CF owners? Nobody?
Everything gets cheaper, RED made some huge price drops here and there.

So if I think logically, that means the upgrade from Weapon CF to Monstro should be cheaper now than the old price of 30k. Because Monstro is also cheaper.

Why did RED cut every price to almost half but keep the old prices for those who really invested into the company? Those people who bought a Weapon CF like me wanted to be at the top spot for future upgrade paths.

It really makes no sense to drop Monstro from 80k to 55k and keep the upgrade price from Weapon CF as it was.
Should be more in the range from 5-15k now for Weapon CF owners. That would make sense.

I am a bit disappointed as I thought Weapon CF owners would get the best possible upgrade options in the future. Now everyone got better prices except us who paid a lot more before.
 
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emil_h said:
The catering truck getting stuck is up there with the principal talent catching the flu!
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Oh wow. We just got done shooting on set a couple of weeks ago where we had 3 catering trucks over 2 days. I can't imagine the riot that may have had if food for 70 people didn't show up. That's one of my worst nightmares. That, and fluke rainstorms while on a back-lot.
 
This is how i would of done it, to get every one i could into unified bodies, everyone...
(estimated costs, because i havent done any math or price research besides forum knowledge)

you can only jump one level upgrade though!

Raven + 10k = Gemini
Scarlet w + 7k = Gemini
Epic w + 4k = Gemini
MG Weapon + 15k = Monstro
CF Weapon + 10k =Monstro
Monstro owners get a series store credit (probably could use the extra media anyway, brings their pkg value up)
 
jordan levy said:
This is how i would of done it, to get every one i could into unified bodies, everyone...
(estimated costs, because i havent done any math or price research besides forum knowledge)

you can only jump one level upgrade though!

Raven + 10k = Gemini
Scarlet w + 7k = Gemini
Epic w + 4k = Gemini
MG Weapon + 15k = Monstro
CF Weapon + 10k =Monstro
Monstro owners get a series store credit (probably could use the extra media anyway, brings their pkg value up)
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Since DSMC2 Gemini costs $19.5K, you're basically saying a used Raven ($6K-9K new) is worth $9500 to RED -- Full retail price at the highest price in history + $500 bonus, a used Scarlet-W ($9.5K-12.5K new) is worth $12,500 to RED -- Full retail price at the highest price in history, and a used Epic-W Helium ($19.5K-$29.5K new) is worth $15,500 to RED. Nearly half retail price at the highest price or still 20% below retail at the cheapest possible price.

One of these things is not like the others...
 
Jarred, I agree with many others here...too much depreciacion on Weapon MG and CF bodies.

We believed in RED and now we are taking a huge hit with new pricing.

Please consider re-thinking the upgrade prices...

MG Weapon + 15k = Monstro
CF Weapon + 10k =Monstro
 
Dude, again and again...

I only have words to say THANK YOU guys.

I am on the Weapon's Wagon for a couple years now, loved every minute but this simplified portfolium is a brilliant move.

Check Mate Dude.

Keep your hard work and passion, your revolutionary moves is fuxxxng inspiring.

I just upgraded my Stormie " Ghosty" to Monstro, have some more bodies to do Metamorphosis, cant wait!!

Fuck Yeah!!




Thanks Jarred, Jim, Brent, Graeme, Justin and the whole team. Always supporting and helping the customers, thats unbelievable. LOve you guys.

Cheers from BRazil ( São Paulo - Brasil)

Jarred Land said:
We accept that.. but a point many are forgetting that many have brought up is many are making an inaccurate comparison and only using one half the argument. " RED lowered pricing and Sony, Canon and ARRI would never do this to us! Damn you RED! "

When the reality is Arri has done this. They have dropped camera prices buy 40% overnight. Canon dropped their C300 in half. TWICE. Sony has done the same. Let's not forget the F23/F35 debacle.

There is such a big difference though. We actually give a shit. And unlike the above examples, we didn't lower prices because we have a new shiny toy. We lowered prices because I woke up one day and realized our cameras were more expensive than they should be. It strayed from the foundation of why we started this company.

We buckled down and made it work. We shrunk our team and unified our product and joined our camera business with one of the best supply chain companies in the world to help make things cheaper.

Sure.. we could of just shut the fuck up and increased our margins and quietly laughed all the way to the bank like everyone else does... but we didn't. We passed that on to our customers. Because that's why we are here. It's not about the money. And that's the irony, because that's why people are upset.

We have done this many times before. Every single one of you has taken advantage of our dedication to making the best cameras as affordable as possible so the most amount of people no matter how rich they are can have the best tools to make their art without compromise. Even those that bought cameras a week ago paid less than they would of. Because that's how it works. And even if you are not a RED customer... I think it's safe to say we made the rest of the industry change to your benefit.

Its also why we are dealing with you all one by one. Because we don't need to do anything. We really don't. Some of you get it , some of you don't. And we will reward the level of compassion accordingly.
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Marco Werner said:
Okay. Unified. Thats a great idea and a futureproof concept.

BUT

Who did think about the new prices for Weapon CF owners? Nobody?
Everything gets cheaper, RED made some huge price drops here and there.

So if I think logically, that means the upgrade from Weapon CF to Monstro should be cheaper now than the old price of 30k. Because Monstro is also cheaper.

Why did RED cut every price to almost half but keep the old prices for those who really invested into the company? Those people who bought a Weapon CF like me wanted to be at the top spot for future upgrade paths.

It really makes no sense to drop Monstro from 80k to 55k and keep the upgrade price from Weapon CF as it was.
Should be more in the range from 5-15k now for Weapon CF owners. That would make sense.

I am a bit disappointed as I thought Weapon CF owners would get the best possible upgrade options in the future. Now everyone got better prices except us who paid a lot more before.
Click to expand...
From Jarred's past post, the price drop was from unifying the internals (i.e. the board and processing side of things) hence the cost savings, but the sensor fab is another story and I really don't think they've advance so far from the yield ratio, especially on Monstro. WH to Monstro is only a sensor swap, while WMG to WH is a total change, infact I was issued a brand new WH camera when I upgraded to WH.

Another thing Jarred did say about this whole unifying move is more cost transparency or rather, clearer cost distribution. Does seem like some of the Monstro cost have been sipping under other sensors' in the past, but now every sensor its strictly on their own, and that, to me reads: different manufacturing locations for the sensors, or at least different manufacturing teams.
The current math does seem like:
DSMC2 board and body; 15.000
GEMINI sensor; 4.500
HELIUM sensor; 9.500
MONSTRO sensor; 39.500

es I wish my upgrade to MONSTRO cheaper, RED has agreed to stay with the initial offering of 30k sensor swap, but who wouldn't wish for a little cost savings? My real hope is for Jarred and his team to have a technical breakthrough with the MONSTRO yield ratio that would allow the cost of production to drop (for RED) and ultimately that trickles down to us

Tommaso Alvisi said:
MG Weapon + 15k = Monstro
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MG Weapon + 15k = Helium last year
 
The fact that people have the guts to put their own pricing structure in a message to the CEO of a company makes me laugh. Not because it's wrong or ignorant(although it does feel kinda wrong), but because it illustrates one of the best parts of owning Red. You actually have a personal connection to Jarred and understanding that your communication and suggestions might actually be read and considered by him.

What a massive win for Red. So many upset customers, yet most of you will continue to be Red customers for a long time - and you probably should, it's pretty good business.

Oh yeah, happy Epic-W owner here. So there is that.

I still need to be convinced that Gemini is the way to go. It would be hard to turn down the $4,950 upgrade to stay Helium with better 8k internals. Only way, I suppose, is to get my hands on Gemini and test against Helium.
 
I don't own a Red. I once, many years ago, worked at a production company where it was my duty to build and manage a Red One kit. Prior to that I'd worked at Blackmagic Design and with Panasonic with the original Varicam. I've worked with everything from U-Matic to D5 to 35mm. When I first saw 4k RAW at full rez, it blew my mind. As I say, I don't own a Red, probably never will. Can't afford it and couldn't justify the expense. I would love an Ursa Mini but can't afford one of those either. Currently saving for a Sony A6300 and, in the meantime, both my iPhone and my drone shoot 4k, like the Ursa and the A6300. Why? Red, that's why.

Without Red, we'd probably still be hiring HDCams with that God awful bloody codec and looking to Arri for a 2k solution.
 
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