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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC2. Unified.

so now which camera will have the biggest or closest to 35mm size sensor when shooting at 4KHD?
monstro? gemini? scarlet-w? or raven even?
 
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Jarred Land said:
We accept that.. but a point many are forgetting that many have brought up is many are making an inaccurate comparison and only using one half the argument. " RED lowered pricing and Sony, Canon and ARRI would never do this to us! Damn you RED! "

When the reality is Arri has done this. They have dropped camera prices buy 40% overnight. Canon dropped their C300 in half. TWICE. Sony has done the same. Let's not forget the F23/F35 debacle.

There is such a big difference though. We actually give a shit. And unlike the above examples, we didn't lower prices because we have a new shiny toy. We lowered prices because I woke up one day and realized our cameras were more expensive than they should be. It strayed from the foundation of why we started this company.

We buckled down and made it work. We shrunk our team and unified our product and joined our camera business with one of the best supply chain companies in the world to help make things cheaper.

Sure.. we could of just shut the fuck up and increased our margins and quietly laughed all the way to the bank like everyone else does... but we didn't. We passed that on to our customers. Because that's why we are here. It's not about the money. And that's the irony, because that's why people are upset.

We have done this many times before. Every single one of you has taken advantage of our dedication to making the best cameras as affordable as possible so the most amount of people no matter how rich they are can have the best tools to make their art without compromise. Even those that bought cameras a week ago paid less than they would of. Because that's how it works. And even if you are not a RED customer... I think it's safe to say we made the rest of the industry change to your benefit.

Its also why we are dealing with you all one by one. Because we don't need to do anything. We really don't. Some of you get it , some of you don't. And we will reward the level of compassion accordingly.
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Love this Jarred. Red absolutely cares. Great business model. Looking forward to the next stages...
 
Jarred Land said:
...We actually give a shit...
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Ha!
So that's your moto!
For all these years that I've been part of the RED client base, it always felt like it was not just about making the best cameras.
Customer care always came first and foremost!
And even though I've lost track of the many new camera releases (due to personal tragedies and other stuff) I still love my RED One and it holds a special place in my heart, just as I get repeatedly reminded we all do to you!
Hopefully soon I will manage to get back to the newest and greatest - which you now made a lot easier. :)

In the meantime, THANK YOU Jarred and Jim and everyone at Red for helping us make great pictures no matter what!
 
Stefano Ceccon said:
Now, who buys half the price of the ex weapon. Do jobs at half price compared to yesterday. Then, since the DSMC2 Helium is cheap, so many buy it or upgrade it. So it increases competition and decreases even more the price of the works.
So it is not possible for me to compete with this mass. I have a mortgage.
The only solution for me in Italy is to return to being the only private owner of a top RED range. But too expensive to do it.
I can not even sell it now. An individual does not amortize 60,000 + more accessories in two years.
So I will have a drastic decrease of work with my Red.

If you could put a Monstro on my White Red for 5,000 euros I would be happy and work well
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Come on, this is silly. Lets be realistic here.
Clients, agencies and directors pick you because of your name as a DP and your experiences based on previous jobs. NOT because you own camera X or Y. Usually, production have a budget for camera gears and lights. As a DP you just pick what is within that budget. However, you can always ask for „more expensive gears“ as long as you can justify. Production might raise the budget.
BUT it is NOT that they will pay double the price because you come on set with a shiny white camera that cost double as much as other cameras. They are not stupid and they don‘t care.

As for newcomers low balling, I care shit about them. And so shall you. They soon realize how stupid they are because there will always be a cheaper guy. It is a bad game really.

Sell your art and talent, not your gear.
 
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Stefano Ceccon said:
Here it is NOT angry for the lower prices, happy with this. Red has always done!
The argument is that they do not help those who invested in Weapon Monstro, update too too expensive.

Epic-w 30.000 upgrade to DSMC2 Helium (ex Weapon 50.000) only 5.000
Weapon 60.000 upgrade Monstro 54.000 "only" 39.000. For me it is not right.
This makes me very angry. Do not help private individuals who believe in the high-range Red
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Stefano... the new 39k is the upgrade price is only for DSMC2 unified owners. for existing Helium Weapon owners like you, it is still the old price.
 
I spend $80,000 USD with my credit card (debt), and from 1 day to another the price devaluated.
I make 0 dollars from filming and using my Monstro.
Yes it hurts when I saw the post about the devaluation of my tool be so dramatic, and more because its really hard to make that kind of money. But come on guys, lets point out a few things that I think people don't realize.

- RED is a business and needs to continue, if they find a way to make a better business model 1 week after or 10 years after why blame them in pursuing them!
- They knew this was going to be mixed feeling with the community.
- The simple fact that Jarred took the time to write me and a lot of users an email mentioning he was going to work something out means that this guys have a lot of empathy for their clients but also knows the importance. I don't know about any of you, but I have never been reach by the CEO of ARRI, SONY, Cannon, etc for new price adjustment.
- When they came back they could have told me or give me anything and I would have been happy, because they showed that they cared, and to me that has an immense value. But they where far beyond what I would imagine.

All people here knows cameras are tools, and I hate seen post like "now the dude with 24k can have the same equipment I had for 60". If your only advantage is having more money, all honestly I think you should reconsider the work you do. I hope most of people that work and buy this types of cameras is to share and film things with their own vision of how crazy or cool we see the world, how we get the ideas of our clients and transform it into our own ideas, RED just help us do it better, and all that vision that filmmakers have is where the value is, not with a 80k equipment.

And to be honest, its just a new price, no one knows the future and If I go back I would still have bought the camera because I like where they taking the limits of filming, and I'm 100% sure with this new structure, new stuff will come soon far more innovative now that they are more efficient.
 
I decided to upgrade my Weapon Mg (which I had for 3 months) to Weapon Helium, the first time the program was announced. I got my camera in February 2017.

I ended up paying around 40K EUR, if I add up all my cost since buying my first Epic Dragon in 2015. That was a great deal. Served me well and kept me excited in owning one of the best cameras that was on the market then, and still is now.

I expected a 10K/year devaluation and somehow the used market reflected that. Now I am looking at something that seems another 10K price drop on top of my expectations. I also expected to be able to use this Weapon 10 years from now and don't care about how it depreciates.

First it seemed tough. But looking back, it makes sense. It's not a loss of value overnight. It's just a readjustment that will help RED innovate and keep providing us with the absolute bleeding edge of technology for years to come.

In the past I gained 10K in advance by being able to get a great deal upgrading my cameras. Now it seems like that some other 10K is just "virtually" lost so it can come back in near future in the form of other great deals and options to upgrade.

I know RED will not cease to amaze us both by making exquisite products in the future and by taking care of the great and talented people that chose to stand by this digital cinema system.

*btw - if I was an Epic-W owner I would jump on those upgrades offered in a heart beat
 
Jarred Land said:
I have been drilling my team on this for months and I entered the discussion with users right here on this forum for over a month before I did anything. Something no other company does.
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This mentality makes a big difference and should be applauded. :)
/Andreas
 
... “the new 39k is the upgrade price is only for DSMC2 unified owners. for existing Helium Weapon owners like still pay the old price.”

Thank You Jarred.

Happy Memorial Day to you and the company
This Unification is huge because it makes things Simple. , simplifies things with AKS and lets us get back on our companies mission of having 2-3 complete systems that work in harmony , not only were brains getting expensive making that difficult but there were too many cameras that had too similar specs. We spent the money to be a top tier camera for a reason. Monsto is in our sights .
Now After honoring our fallen , eating lots of grilled stuff and ice cold beer RED can concentrate on making RED’s 1000FPS 6k camera sensor , posibly named “Menace” ( I made the last bit up)
 
So just to confirm, the only current upside for Weapon Helium customers over those with cheaper bodies is that the Monstro upgrade will remain $29k instead of increasing in price to $39k to match those of new DSMC2 owners? Earlier in the thread there was mention of the team “working on something” for Weapon owners but I’m not sure if this was the result or not, even after reading through about 20 pages of replies. Looking forward to the clarification! Thanks guys.
 
Fabricio Morato said:
If shooting R3D, that would be Gemini (biggest pixel of the bunch).
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so that's interesting, the Gemini will be the most viable camera in my part of the industry then. There was a brief moment when post houses were, hey 6k? cool. now its like 6k, no!
my limit in broadcast tv and commercial production is 4k, and even that is just for netflix and vfx at the moment. as well, 35mm format is what i was born into and love, that how i see and thats how i shoot.
so i guess the next closest is scarlet and raven? or where does monstro fall at 4k?

i also think that, and i said it before raven "4k for all" people cant be left behind in all this, that was the marketing pitch with 4k for all, take the leap and you will be taken care of. i think a possibility to have a raven or scarlet size sensor in a weapon body, or a path to gemini somehow would only help RED to unify the last body left out.

btw, had to show, a memory of 9 years ago today shooting red ones in a 3D rig for the Yogi Bear theatrical trailer, haha!

yogibear3d_zpsaqasy4cj.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
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Now that the price of the camera bodies have come down I think it’s about time accessories drop a bit. The Media prices are ridiculously high as are most of the modules etc. Not sure why that’s not being discussed. It’s actually what pushed me to purchase an Alexa over a RED. I’m very happy with my Alexa but I’ve always considered another RED if the Media and accessories were more reasonably priced.
 
mikeburton said:
Now that the price of the camera bodies have come down I think it’s about time accessories drop a bit. The Media prices are ridiculously high as are most of the modules etc. Not sure why that’s not being discussed. It’s actually what pushed me to purchase an Alexa over a RED. I’m very happy with my Alexa but I’ve always considered another RED if the Media and accessories were more reasonably priced.
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Pretty good idea to move a bunch of product, even if it was half priced for awhile.

Jarred, how long will the 5k update be available? A year from now?
 
Mike,

would love to see lower pricing on the media and accessories. When RED went to the Mini-Mags - prices were reduced the old 512gb/1.8 Mags were $3950...and today the mini-mag 480gb mag is $1850.00 - so there has been a substantial reduction with the newer media.
 
Just to make sure I'm not missing this somewhere:
There is no direct upgrade path from Scarlet-W to DSMC2 Helium 8k is there?
 
Ryan Hamelin said:
So just to confirm, the only current upside for Weapon Helium customers over those with cheaper bodies is that the Monstro upgrade will remain $29k instead of increasing in price to $39k to match those of new DSMC2 owners? Earlier in the thread there was mention of the team “working on something” for Weapon owners but I’m not sure if this was the result or not, even after reading through about 20 pages of replies. Looking forward to the clarification! Thanks guys.
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My thoughts exactly. Please expand on ‘working on something’ for Weapon owners.
 
Unified... Creativity - It's not about the money!

Unified... Creativity - It's not about the money!

Jarred Land said:
that's why we are here. It's not about the money.
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The reason why we are all here is because we are passionate about our art and the (RED) tools that we use. I get that, it's how my team and I approach everything. RED has just made those tools available to more people, they have unified creativity in a way only RED could do. Try getting a move like that past shareholders who only focus on return and money.

I bought an Epic W less than a year ago, not as an 'investment' but as a tool to deliver the best creativity and results for our clients... and, if I am honest, for the feeling it gives my team when they rock up on a shoot with a RED. It challenges them to shoot their best because I have given them the best tools (we have other cameras sure but I can sense the guys walking taller when they have a RED in their hand, tripod or Movi...) Because Jim, Jarred and the whole RED team have given us the best tools. That alone to me is worth the price I paid.

I know some Weapon owners will probably say 'Epic W owner, so bound to feel that way...' and I get that, but I also bought a camera less than a year ago that is now sold for less that I paid, do I care - No! It was worth what it was worth at the time... It was always going to drop in £/$ value, but not in it's value to me and my team. That remains a constant.

Will I happily pay extra to get the upgrade? Heck yes! 60FPS & Extended warranty - no brainer!

Will I now order a Gemini DSMC2? Yes!

I am not trivialising the cost of a camera (RED or any camera). I am a tight 'northerner' from the UK and delighted what @Brent has done with the exchange rate for us on this side of the pond - that has tipped me over the edge on the Gemini decision... Just saying that lets not get mad, lets get creative and remember why we started shooting on RED. It's not about the money.

It also makes me proud to see some many Monstro & Weapon owners being looked after and communicated with by the people at the very top - and seeing the more compassionate reactions from the owners.

Thanks all...
 
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