DSMC2. Unified.

[Amy Creighton]

hmmm such a shame that the upgrade from SW to Gemini is bit pricey! almost worth just buying a second camera...

 

[scott mei]

just gotten my gemini last week. Have to say feeling sad about the price drop without any heads up when I order it few weeks ago. The overall idea is great, but disappointed at the business/sales strategy. if this ha been planning for sometime, then a better gesture can be done instead feeling like a fool

 

[Luca Volpe]

SOOOOOO... Dear Jarred... I am going to update from my Epic W to EPIC W "Weapon body" as there are many things to consider:
1. It has a top class body and features which otherwise will cost a LOT more.
2. I went from SW to EW when it was a good deal to move, so not really paid much at the end.
3. In case we want to seel the new body we are not going to lose a lot of money, when instead if we sell now the EW we are going to lose quite a bit...
4. I am sure that getting this path we are going to get some LOVE for future update to DSMC3 bodies in 2 years...
5. I suppose we get an extension of warranty too (mine has still one year left)

So, for 4,950 I think is a good deal...the only thing I will miss is the logo EPIC W in front of the body, I liked whn cameras has names on it...so here is my suggestion:
Why not to give the option to have engraved our name instead DSMC 2???
Jarred can you make this for us?
Thanks!

P.S. HOPEFULLY this also brings a solution for the Time and Date battery drain problem...I WILL PAY HIS MONEY ONLY FOR THAT!!!
And also, now having this new beta tester group I am sure the firmware will be a lot more stable...so all good for RED!

 

[Finn Möller]

Upgraded today from SW to Gemini! Thanks Jarred!

 

[AndreasOberg]

This is a great move for Red. Makes the cameras better and also much easier to understand. I always felt the "30fps 8k" Helium was a bit of a compromise in frame rate, 60fps is so much nicer.

We just bought a Carbon Fibre Weapon Helium a few weeks ago, so not the best timing perfect but we really love the camera. It is so much better than our Epic MX (which also is much loved).
/Andreas

 

[Ryan Williams]

I don't know.. Should I upgrade my Scarlet-W to a DSMC2 Gemini or use the funds to buy other things like a set of good lights, microphones/sound recorder, etc. that would really up my game.. The gear acquisition syndrome is strong with this upgrade path, but to be honest I feel the Scarlet-W (or the Raven) is more than capable to produce beautiful images for years to come.. And that Atlas Orion anamorphic lenses is also looking great!
Need. To. Choose. Wisely.

That is essentially how I'm looking at it. Instead of worrying about converting/upgrading my Wep-MG, I'm probably just going to grab some lights, mics, and some glass. Maybe a few months down the road, it will make sense for me to start shelling out to upgrade my camera, but right now she is doing everything I need her to do. YMMV, of course. Also, I agree with you on that Atlas anamorphic glass. Pretty nice!

 

[Ryan Williams]

I've learned from being a RED owner over the years and hope I can lend some advice for those that are like me.

1. Jump on the good deals when you see something that works for you. For example, I couldn't afford an Epic MX, yet they cut the price in half and I could jump in. If you can't swing it don't do it.
2. Honestly don't upgrade if you can't afford it. Really look at the value of what you have. The upgrades are awesome but if you can't afford it, it turns into a rabbit hole you will constantly be digging to keep up with.
3. The top tier doesn't make sense unless you can really afford it and you have the work for it. Just don't do it if you're going to be hemorrhaging money and opening loans.
4. Get the low end gear and be able to afford using it. Get a Raven, its really all I need and most of us need. Then you have all the accessories for the big projects when they come along and all you need to do is rent the body.
5. Seriously just sit back and watch. Upgrading and trying to keep up is an endless money stream that only makes sense for a few. Just look at the frustration from those trying to keep up.

They're great cameras but RED moves as fast or faster than other companies. Wait for it to be a fit for you.

One of the most poignant responses I've seen so far. Thanks for sharing your experience/advice.

 

[D Fuller]

Any Monochrome... I made that sensor out of pure passion against all logic and those of you that bought them are just as insane as I am. Email me your (fair) offer and Ill do my best. Jarred@red.com

This. I don’t own a monochrome, but I love seeing this. This passion makes Red what it is. Hats off to you, Jarred.

 

[Ryan Williams]

And MG to Monstro?

Yes, there is.

Ryan, sorry, as you can imagine, my PM Inbox went from zero to full, plus emails, and trying to stay up with the posts here. Maybe I misread the original question. To go from WEAPON Mg, if you want to take advantage of current upgrades, you could go to DSMC2 GEMINI for $6950 then get the HELIUM sensor for $9500. Or, sell the WEAPON Mg, and buy DSMC2 HELIUM outright for $24,500.

WEAPON RED DRAGON 6K (Magnesium) >>>> DSMC2 GEMINI 5K S35 Sensor + Board Upgrade for $6,950.............. then DSMC2 GEMINI 5K S35 >>>> DSMC2 MONSTRO 8K VV Sensor Upgrade $39,500, for a total upgrade cost of $46,450.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Hi
Im the owner of a a Dragon Weapon 6K Mg body. I am a loyal customer, first started by buying Scarlet MX kit. Then I went on Upgrading from Scarlet Mx to Epic X, then from Epic to Dragon 6k then from Dragon to DMSC 2 weapon Dragon 6K. All these upgrades were pricy but great to me. Right now I feel a bit left over since there are now current update to Helium or Gemini. I've contacted my red bomb squad, but he doesn't know when this specific upgrade will be available.
Someone at RED can help sort this out please ? Thanks

Gwen,

Brent has offered you his ear (via PM) but maybe one of his earlier posts will help answer your question.

Ryan, sorry, as you can imagine, my PM Inbox went from zero to full, plus emails, and trying to stay up with the posts here. Maybe I misread the original question. To go from WEAPON Mg, if you want to take advantage of current upgrades, you could go to DSMC2 GEMINI for $6950 then get the HELIUM sensor for $9500. Or, sell the WEAPON Mg, and buy DSMC2 HELIUM outright for $24,500.

If you want a VV instead of a Wep-H then change the $9,500 to $39,500.

 

[Bastian Meier]

Cannot comment on currency exchange stuff, not my wheelhouse, ha.

who is responsible for the currency conversions?
It might even be cheaper to buy the exchange in usd and have the camera shipped from Europe to the US and back.
12500 USD is approximately 10500 euros today. 12900 € is more then a 20% increase, that seems a bit odd to me

 

[Ryan Williams]

While true, it does create a little fear in the lifetime of support for it. One doesn't want to have put $12,500 into a camera that's obviously no longer sold by the manufacturer, and worries that it might lose support earlier than the buyer envisioned.

I think your fear is a bit unfounded at this moment. Have you seen any info that has been officially put out by RED saying that they are going cold turkey on you in a week and half? You still have time, though it is hard to say how much specifically.

Still, that's one of the things you have to swallow when you get into commercial gear in ANY industry. I've bought $25,000 printers that were replaced with $6,000 printers not even 12 months later. And then the parts were no longer available well short of 12 months after.

Agree with you here.

*You is used ambiguously here, just a FYI*

Additionally, with technology in the current time, there is a very specific life span for a given product. This is very similar to many other things consumers buy. You probably shouldn't buy a computer and think its going to last you 20 years. You probably shouldn't buy a car thinking its going to last for more than 300,000 miles. You probably shouldn't buy a high end cinema camera and think it will last more than 5 years. Is it great if any of those things do get supported and/or last longer than expected, sure! However, I wouldn't count on it. That is truly one of the costs to progression is that things are going to lose value over time. Sometimes, that period of time is much shorter than expected.

We use these rigs to make money -- and part of being in any technology sector means whatever we get today will be replaced quickly tomorrow -- so don't buy a camera you can't get work to pay off quickly enough.

Again, on the same sheet of music as you are. If you aren't using it for business and it is for luxury, then you probably are in a place where the $$$ difference is something you can pay for and not be concerned with. I hope (as I'm sure many others do) that I can make it to the latter position someday!

 

[Ryan Williams]

Dude I was thinking about this. Everybody is racing about what the camera costs! I mean electronical products if you can't ROI within 2 years don't buy it. That's why I never jump on the most expensive stuff immediately and that's also why I love RED so much. They let me grow into it.
Thanks guy's can't believe you doing this whole shit storm again.

Déjà vu

I'm thinking of opening up a thread wherein I post that I'm willing to take a Wep-MG for $6,000 from one of the people who thinks their camera isn't worth anything anymore! Maybe I'll even look at used SWs. I'm sure that would draw the ire of quite a few folks, but if I got a good B-cam, it would probably be worth it!

 

[Adam Brian Dada]

Again, on the same sheet of music as you are. If you aren't using it for business and it is for luxury, then you probably are in a place where the $$$ difference is something you can pay for and not be concerned with. I hope (as I'm sure many others do) that I can make it to the latter position someday!

Absolutely! If I can't produce enough to pay off the camera in a reasonable period of time, the camera wasn't the right tool for me. It's like any tool: some people buy emotionally, some buy rationally, and some lucky people buy because they don't care and just want jewelry. RED is no different.

I did some digging around last night and for me the upgrade path from S-W to Gemini doesn't seem worth it for me. It makes more sense for me to put light to sensor for a year (or two!) and relegate the S-W to a B camera later.

I'm not nervous about the camera being "outdated" by any means: I just posted that meaning that others are concerned about it. For me, if the camera can do just 30 film-days of excellent light capture, it's done its job. That's around the break-even point over filming; maybe 36 days if I include the opportunity cost of the sunk investment.

36 days to pay off a tool is remarkable. I have tools I bought in 2010 that still haven't paid for themselves, haha.

 

[Scot Yount]

Love that you have 50k to toss about. Pants around your ankles? Sounds like you know what thats like... :blush2:


U should be out shooting.

Matt, some people make good money in this business. Maybe $50K is what he spent because he works at a higher level and gets good ROI?

 

[Nick Morrison]

Personally, I think this is good for RED and the community.

Simplifies the market.

Makes RED very competitive.

Slowly removes "Weapon" from company branding.

And this unified body will probably also have firmware implications - ie more streamlined/smoothe code for one set of internals.

I think this is sort of a watershed moment where RED really grows up as a company.

As a biz owner I can relate to the 3-4 year reset, and I think RED are making a bold/smart move here.

But yeah CF/VV def need a little bit of love, they were always promised an olive branch for their leap of faith.

All the other costs make sense to me.

Onward and upward.

 

[Ryan Williams]

I have tools I bought in 2010 that still haven't paid for themselves, haha.

Sounds like most of my equipment right now, lol. Hopefully that will change here soon. Got some new stuff on the horizon. Good luck on your end.

 

[JD Butler]

After some mixed feelings following the news I get it. For many who are heavily invested I understand it’s a tough pill to swallow (trust me, I’m a recent weapon helium owner). My first thought was fuck my investment just got cut in half… But let’s be real. This isn’t the business for rentals anymore. The fact is the market is over-saturated and the technology is becoming cheaper and cheaper. At the end of the day it's the work you put out and that has nothing to do with what camera you own.

It’s certainly the right move for Red as a business and I think it’s great they’re simplifying the lineup.

 

[Adam Brian Dada]

Sounds like most of my equipment right now, lol. Hopefully that will change here soon. Got some new stuff on the horizon. Good luck on your end.

I think I'm pretty confident in renting equipment before buying it. I didn't do that with the RED gear because I networked to find folks who would barter out their gear for something I had that was valuable, but it's the same idea.

I won't buy a $5 wing nut without renting it first, lol. "Do I need to buy this, can I make a profit with it, will it be smarter than renting it?"

With camera gear, it almost feels like it makes more sense to rent most of it due to the nature of the upgrade beast AND the loss of one entire scheduled film day if something goes wrong. But my productions aren't about those worries, so owning the gear just made more sense from a schedule basis, not a financial one.

 

[Jonathan Shugarman]

will current epic-w's get 6op through a firmware?