DSMC2. Unified.

[Matt Bai]

I guess magnesium owners got the short straw... again. "Upgrading" to Gemini is neither an upgrade or a "side grade", we just have to accept that our cameras value got cut in more than half. A new MG was $29 500. even at reasonable used prices it wouldn't have gone down as low as $13 000.

So, if we were to successfully sell our cameras at a price that should be close to what it's actually worth, we should be able to sell it for at least $20 000, meaning more than what a new Gemini costs. But upgrading would cost us around $6500. I'm still jaw-dropped at the logic for this.

Have you ever bought a new car?

MG was a lighter camera with higher specs right?

 

[Matt Bai]

First of all, apologies if this was already answered. I tried to find it but all of this is a bit overwhelming...

We have 2 Epic-W's with Helium sensors. We just upgraded them in September before the cutoff. I don't get what we would get for upgrading for $5,000. I thought our cameras were DSMC2?

This overhaul of their product names is SO overdue when even I can't figure it out as an owner since Red One days. Too many body styles mixed with sensor styles, etc, etc. Options are good, but I think RED is very smart to move towards an easier 1-body, choice of sensors model. That is way easier to get your head around. This reset happened at Apple when Jobs came back, too. Options are good but sometimes can get out of hand. Jobs brought everything to 4 quadrants and only a few options within each. Sounds similar to what RED is doing now...thankfully.

Anyways, let me know what I'd be getting for $10,000 if I were to upgrade both my Epic-W Heliums...because other than a bit more fps at 8k, I don't think I see a difference, but I could be wrong.

Thanks!

Fascinated that 60fps is a "bit more."

:001_huh:

 

[Patrick E. Coker]

So what happens to the 6K Weapon?

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Guys no one NEEDS to upgrade anything. Most of us who post on these boards were lucky to get good deals on our cameras that are now about 2 years old.... they modified some prices to get MORE people some upgrade love.. while I can see why some are scratching their heads about what was yesterday vrs today... I guess to use the car anology again we have been using our cameras for almost 2 years, people are getting the same product later down the line..
if the rumors of a new body type in 2020+ are true we will have had more time to create/make money with our cameras.
Like jarred said if someone payed full price ( no upgrade love) I can see some frustration and seems like red is addressing it.

Bottom line is the WEAPON program was a really cool ide that seemed to get red into many clusterfucked situations. To many variables and craziness. I can totally see how this new streamlined model works for red. And judging from recent posts from the head office I’m sure this has been a difficult decision but an important one to avoid more pain later.
Like many have said.
If you have a camer currently keep shooting it and look forward to the next round of changes
For the new guys getting blessed with new possibilities... crack on and congratulations

 

[Kevin Wild]

Fascinated that 60fps is a "bit more."

:001_huh:

Ha ha. Okay, I plead guilty to not even knowing what we can currently get as far as fps at 8k. Sorry...didn't mean to slight the difference. It's just different for others. About 80% of our use of the cameras are corporate work and 99% of our work is at 5k or 6k. So yeah...more fps at 8k doesn't mean much to me, but probably does for you and others. ;-)

 

[Scot Yount]

You CF Weapon owners don't sweat it.. I know you guys are holding the bag right now, Give Brent and I a few days we are working on something.

Thanks Jarred, you guys usually rock and I am hoping that is the case again!

 

[Matt Bai]

Wtf guys, why are you ranting about this prices drops. Your cameras still shoot the same beautifull images. If some of you just dropped every single penny on a camera I am sorry but you are doing it wrong. You know the rules of the game it happens everywhere, technology is a risk because of the fast evolution every one changes phones every year for example. Still this is the same company that let's u upgrade your tools if you want to, even if it is completely outdated like the red one. I have been so freaking happy with my RED. I know it doesnt has the same value today, but who cares? I am not in the business of buying and selling cameras, I sell moving pictures, and they are fucking awesome. So this are my 2 cents. Keep shooting with your cameras and do what u love most. Don't think how much your camera worths. Think how much do you worth!!!

Peace

This is correct. And EVERYTHING is a risk.

 

[Michael Wahba]

We are looking to see if we can add request-received confirmation emails. Since this is just a request, not an order, it is not set up with order confirmation-like replies, sorry.

Meanwhile, for those who already placed requests, will see if we can send out a mass "we got your request" blast later today or so...

Any status on this to see if us who already placed requests to see if we get a confirmation? Just want to make sure I got in there! Or maybe just let me know I'm on the list

 

[jacob.schwarz]

I will only say this once because i know am going to get my head chewed off for this.

But we all need to give Jarred and whole red team a break. They are running a business not a charity. Now I've greatly benefited from the upgrade paths that Red put into place over the years, however if tomorrow they got rid of the whole thing altogether I wouldn't be any worse off (but I hope they don't ) . Why .... because i only owe camera that makes me money!

Only $5K make my camera a $25K! That's amazing! Only $35K to make my camera a $54K camera, that too is amazing. Usually what you pay for is what you get. No other camera company that offers such amazing opportunity for it's customers! Typically you buy a, $50K+ Arri Mini, and that is the end of the road. You can't pay more to make it something that it's not, it $50K+, it has gone off the lot and now it's a sunk cost, just like a car. Yeah maybe you can resell it for something and make a little back maybe but if you are honestly counting on that in this day in age you are crazy with the current camera tech environment. If you can't make back the $50k+ you spent on the camera in either hard or soft rentals, you shouldn't have bought the camera to start with. Same with Red, if you buy a camera and it's not making you money than then don't buy it! RENT! If you can't make $5K or even $34k in a year or two with your camera, than your hard earned money and rent the camera when you need it, or better yet make the client pay for it. Trust me $19K for a DSMC2 Gemini is a lot of rentals for the same camera!

Owning the camera isn't going to make your content better, only you can do that. Yes if you own a camera you can practice more and get better, but why spend money you don't have or borrow money you don't have in hopes that it will make you better. There are honestly a dozen sub-$3k that make great images with their log based workflows that are great for practicing. I know Red cameras are cheap in comparison to other Pro System out there, so it is tempting to buy one and try your luck, but rent until you know you are getting hired enough to make purchasing any camera system worth it while for you.

$5k is a lot better than $25k guys! And like Lucas said, your "older" camera is not a brick now, it is still a tool and should keep making you money, and again if the new tech or upgrade price isn't going to make you more money than don't upgrade! Keep making great content and landing more gigs so that eventually it will make sense.

Like Brent, said when you drive the car off the lot, tomorrow the dealership is going to call you up the next day and say hey sorry we have a new model coming out in a week we'll give you an upgrade X number of dollars. Haha. Yeah, that will never happen; however, your car is still hopefully going to get you from point a to b.

So keep striving to get from point A to Point B everyone, and don't worry about the what you are driving.

 

[emil_h]

Ha ha. Okay, I plead guilty to not even knowing what we can currently get as far as fps at 8k. Sorry...didn't mean to slight the difference. It's just different for others. About 80% of our use of the cameras are corporate work and 99% of our work is at 5k or 6k. So yeah...more fps at 8k doesn't mean much to me, but probably does for you and others. ;-)

lol if that's the case I would highly suggest trading in cameras. At 5-6k res your FOV must be really tight on the EW.

 

[Jason S. Lee]

I agree that Unified body sounds great in the long run.

However, having bought a Epic W Gemini 4 weeks ago, immediately after it's release, I can not be happy that I could have saved $5k If I prolonged the purchase until today.

It is unfair that the camera that was released 4 weeks ago just had a $5k price drop. I am only a NYU college student, and having wasted $5k is a big deal for me.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Definitely the right way to go. I wish the DSLR makers would do this. I've wanted this for years. "What do you mean, if I want the higher megapixel sensor I lose the articulated rear LCD and the control layout changes? Why?!"

 

[Brent G Miller Jr]

I agree that Unified body sounds great in the long run.

However, having bought a Epic W Gemini 4 weeks ago, immediately after it's release, I can not be happy that I could have saved $5k If I prolonged the purchase until today.

It is unfair that the camera that was released 4 weeks ago just had a $5k price drop. I am only a NYU college student, and having wasted $5k is a big deal for me.

That's why your upgrade from Epic-W Gemini to the DSMC2 Unified Gemini is FREE.

 

[Matt Bai]

I agree that Unified body sounds great in the long run.

However, having bought a Epic W Gemini 4 weeks ago, immediately after it's release, I can not be happy that I could have saved $5k If I prolonged the purchase until today.

It is unfair that the camera that was released 4 weeks ago just had a $5k price drop. I am only a NYU college student, and having wasted $5k is a big deal for me.

Bro, 5k is a lot to a lot of people. As a college student you just learned a lesson. Fortunately RED is far more generous than the rest of civilization. Your camera should have cost more.

 

[Brandon Obey]

Thanks, but that doesn't really clear it up for me. What does a "unified brain" give me that I don't have? And I just did a search for "Weapon" on their new DSMC2 page and it is not mentioned once. And besides, what was the "W" in Epic-W stand for? Weapon, right? I'm still confused to what I'd be getting that is different than what I just upgraded to. We are shooting 8k already. I thought our body is DSMC2 already. Still a little confused on this...

They will switch out the boards so now the whole crop issue as far as having to drop frame rates won't be an issue. Also you be able to use the full sensor more. Thats basically it. The Helium 8K will take the spot that the Epic Dragon was 3 years ago basically.

I am ready once they open the doors.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

The $30k from Weapon CF Helium 8K to Monstro VV was already a big stretch - im afraid $40k makes it too far for me.

 

[Samir Patel]

I think when the dust settles you will find this move was just the one to get people to think about putting in an order for a backup camera, second sensor camera. I almost don't want to upgrade to Gemini but instead just focus on the work and buy one outright. Upgrading from an Epic-W to Weapon frame rates for the cost presented is a blessing. Enough of a blessing to budget for picking up that next body when the time comes. A lot of negativity up on here today. Some from the same people which has become nauseating to read (actually over the years). I get it though. But just know some of us out here while we may not post often are very much feeling no matter how you approached this you would have polarized reactions but at the end of the day this is a business decision. We understand you are not running a charity as much as you want to have cameras in the hands of everyone.

 

[Michael Wahba]

That's why your upgrade from Epic-W Gemini to the DSMC2 Unified Gemini is FREE.

True, but I think he is saying he could have saved $5k cash had he just waited.

 

[andrewhake]

As someone who was going to buy a Scarlet-W, then a Gemini after it was announced. I absolutely love you beautiful bastards. Thank you.

 

[Jason S. Lee]

That's why your upgrade from Epic-W Gemini to the DSMC2 Unified Gemini is FREE.

Thank you for your reply.

I know that the upgrade from Epic-W Gemini to DSMC2 Gemini is FREE but it is basically the same camera except better data rates. I am losing $5k as I could have saved $5k if i purchased the camera today instead.

Don't get me wrong. I love my Gemini to death. It is an amazing camera. But it is just unfair for a product to cost 1/5 less 4 weeks after it's initial release. The camera that costed $25k for me to purchase now costs $20k brand new.

I purchased the camera with an understanding that it may lose value 6 months after it's release. I did my research and I knew RED may release a new sensor 6 months later and my camera would drop in value. I would not feel bad at all if that was the case.

However, I never expected my camera to lose value 4 weeks after it's initial release.

I know technology advances fast and products depreciates but depreciating by 1/5 of the retail price 4 weeks after it's initial release is unfair to the early Gemini buyers.

Being a college student, I don't have the luxury of not caring about wasting $5k.