Dsmc..

[Charles Angus]

DSMC is digital stills motion camera, I believe.

 

[Hugues Wisniewski]

I have to say that I am very surprised that these "big guys" would release a camera that shoots "motion" with this kind of defect. It sounds really good on paper, but many will actually buy these cameras and believe that you can shoot motion with them.

Jim

With a powerful marketing you can sell a lot of crap and make people believe they bought the best product in the world. It works for software, computers, movies and even politics.

So my question Jim, is how will you market this new DSLR? Will we see ads on TV? In newspapers? On Oakley ads like "shot on Red"?
There's a good chance that people like me, reading this forum will buy it and show it around and this will drag traction to your site, but will that be enough?
Selling a professional cinema camera is one thing because the market is small and people know where to find you. But will the current marketing model be enough for the still camera mass market? Just curious.

 

[JohnLands]

were do you put the follow focus on this 1080p camera? Were do you mount it to the jib? Were is the remote start stop? How do you watch playback? How do you tell the bond company were shooting with a really cheap and cool still camera that shoots HD. Not gonna happen.

 

[sander kamp]

Where does everybody see skew and bad image quality? In the few shots I have seen online skew seems to be much less than the D90 and don't forget the RED has skew too.

 

[Jannard]

Where does everybody see skew and bad image quality? In the few shots I have seen online skew seems to be much less than the D90 and don't forget the RED has skew too.

Since Build 12 we have heard no complaints about skew whatsoever because we enabled the "rapid" in rapid reset. The D90 skew is unbearable because it has a very slow read-reset. My impression is that the Canon will have a similar problem. We have heard that there is quite a bit of scrambling going on inside the "C" about this. But nevertheless, it will become very apparent as soon as the camera ships.

We have yet to see a still camera with a rapid-reset CMOS sensor. That doesn't mean that Canon could have all of a sudden found one, but I would be surprised and would certainly test it out before I bought one. Unless you just want it for stills. In that case, I am comfortable that it is an excellent performer. Most all Canon and Nikon DSLRs perform very well as still cameras these days.

Jim

 

[Steve Sanacore]

I have to say that I am very surprised that these "big guys" would release a camera that shoots "motion" with this kind of defect. It sounds really good on paper, but many will actually buy these cameras and believe that you can shoot motion with them.

Jim

I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that shooting video with a DSLR like the 5D2 or Nikon D90 would be useful for anything other than home movies. And probably poor even for that.

 

[Jannard]

I looked at the videos on this link:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/02.html
VeryGood.
My local dealer says people are already calling in orders for future delivery.
But, I will wait for the 28MP offer from Sony and whatever Panasonic is bringing out for Christmas.
The age of camcorders have ended.

I am still curious: what does DSMC stand for?

It seems very interesting to me that every shot is a lock-down shot. The camera is not moving in any sample footage.

Jim

 

[Jannard]

I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that shooting video with a DSLR like the 5D2 or Nikon D700 would be useful for anything other than home movies. And probably poor even for that.

The D90 is not suitable for home movies with this amount of skew IMHO. The HVX is (and more than just home movies)... as is the DVX. So are many other inexpensive camcorders. We do believe that the day is coming when you can shoot great stills AND motion (DSMC) from the same camera. But a typical slow reset CMOS sensor will not be inside the camera... and that is what is currently inside virtually every DSLR today.

Jim

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

Most people don't give a crap. I still have to labor everyday with poorly shot footage from DV cameras. I still have to work from 5th generation DVD copies of VHS footage. The D90 to some of these folks would be nivarna. I wish I could wave a magic wand and magically get everyone into a RED trance. I did finish some more spots that I shot on a RED and it was a relief to my eyes. Someday when the client releases them I can show them. Hopefully in a few more weeks. In the meantime I was going over a budget with a small agency, showed them the spots I shot and cut from the RED.
He said that looks great but I want to shoot these with my GL1.....

 

[Brad Olsen]

He said that looks great but I want to shoot these with my GL1.....

GL1?!!!! NOOO!!!! That's just terrible. What I loved about my DVX was progressive footage, interlace needs to die. You can play back progressive footage on CRTs plus it looks great on all other displays. On the other hand interlace looks awful on anything but a CRT, and it still isn't pretty even then. The HVX is cool cause it eliminated a lot of the crappy miniDV artifacts that plagued the DVX.

But I can't wait for Scarlet and DSMC. I feel extremely privileged to live in this day and age with Jim Jannard who frees us from thinking we have to make sacrifices in quality in the digital world.

 

[Red47]

okay Jim, you've sold me on the video aspects of the Dsmc but i want to know how well it will perform as a Dslr. as a photographer the video modes on the cameras like the nikon d90 and the canon eos 5d mark 2 are just extras. i want to know if this camera is really going to deliver as a still camera as well. whats going to make the still features excel from a 5dmark 2 or a d700?

 

[10s]

The D90 has many faults but it's heading in the right direction. So far NO mfg has produced what we have all been asking for: a low cost camera, interchangable lenses, a decent size sensor with the corresponding DOF shallow focus/bokeh, 24fps, 1080P HD, a decent codec-No HDV, etc...

It's amazing no one has stepped up to give us what we want. Yes RED one is great but it cost too much, Scarlet has a fixed lens, the other mfg cameras use small sensors and/or bad codecs... there's a huge prize for the winner who can listen and produce.

Hopefully the RED DSMC camera will fit the bill.

 

[Paris Remillard]

Since Build 12 we have heard no complaints about skew whatsoever because we enabled the "rapid" in rapid reset.

Jim

Actually... When I got my camera it had Build 15 installed and I've found it quite easy to induce noticeable skew and jello-y footage. Not nearly as bad as these still cameras, but it isn't a non-issue with RED... yet. I know that you guys are on the case and I trust that the X and Monstro sensors will fix the issues. But, in all honesty, and in my opinion, the rolling shutter issues are my only real complaint about my Red One so far. Not trying to be contadictory. Just politely giving my honest thoughts.

 

[Jannard]

Actually... When I got my camera it had Build 15 installed and I've found it quite easy to induce noticeable skew and jello-y footage. Not nearly as bad as these still cameras, but it isn't a non-issue with RED... yet. I know that you guys are on the case and I trust that the X and Monstro sensors will fix the issues. But, in all honesty, and in my opinion, the rolling shutter issues are my only real complaint about my Red One so far. Not trying to be contadictory. Just politely giving my honest thoughts.

I guess that is fair... inducing skew is possible with the RED ONE. To take it from subjective to objective, our measurements show that the newest DSLRs we have tested, including the D90, have a 5 times longer read-reset time than a RED ONE. Which means it is 5 times more jelly (not useable unless there is no camera movement). And Mysterium-X reduces the time dramatically relative to the RED ONE.

Jim

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

GL1?!!!! NOOO!!!! That's just terrible. What I loved about my DVX was progressive footage, interlace needs to die. You can play back progressive footage on CRTs plus it looks great on all other displays. On the other hand interlace looks awful on anything but a CRT, and it still isn't pretty even then. The HVX is cool cause it eliminated a lot of the crappy miniDV artifacts that plagued the DVX.

But I can't wait for Scarlet and DSMC. I feel extremely privileged to live in this day and age with Jim Jannard who frees us from thinking we have to make sacrifices in quality in the digital world.

I have an HVX. I only shoot 24p. (OK maybe 30p if it only goes to TV)
I show new clients the difference and they don't know what the hell I am showing them. It's all bottom line.
They have a camera. They shoot a shitty interview and wonder why it does not look and sound as good as the demo i showed them. ??
Wankers - I wish I could say - The gear is a part of the whole. It takes some experience and knowing what can go wrong or what looks
like crap to actually make something halfway decent.
I am looking forward to DSMC - now if Jim and RED could make some affordable daylight balanced lighting kits........

 

[Mike McCombs]

I want to help

I want to help

Jim, do I need to even say it again at this point?

Mike McCombs

mikemccombs@mac.com
mmccombs@samys.com

PS I emailed you back about meeting later this month, I look forward to seeing you.

 

[ahusain]

I guess that is fair... inducing skew is possible with the RED ONE. To take it from subjective to objective, our measurements show that the newest DSLRs we have tested, including the D90, have a 5 times longer read-reset time than a RED ONE. Which means it is 5 times more jelly (not useable unless there is no camera movement). And Mysterium-X reduces the time dramatically relative to the RED ONE.

Jim

The worse problem is the highly subsampled sensor and the aliasing artifacts that result. Unless all you shoot is fuzzy, low-detail images, that alone makes it unusable for probably all high-quality applications. Red still has no direct competition.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

A comparison between RED and Canon 5D Mark II

both at HD(1920x1080) movie size:

1. Alesniak's Canon EOS-RED "dumb" mount with Canon EF 70-300mm DO IS USM @ 300mm & f/22

and

2. Canon 5D Mark II with Canon EF 300mm f/4 USM & Extender EF1.4II.


Also don't forget that RED shoots at 24.4 x 13.7 mm sized Mysterium sensor that is

something in between Nikon DX 1.5 and Canon APS-C 1.6 crop factor from

a full sized 35mm sensor that shoots Canon 5D mark II (36 x 34 mm).

The original movie links for download:

Alesniak's test>>>53meg H.264 1080p>>>

Canon 5D MkII test, 276 MB>>>

 

[BobSimon]

The new cameras are not a threat to RED. These are cheap still cameras that allow people to record the scene with motion and sound along with still pictures. These are not movie cameras. But for consumers this is a great product. I love these new cameras. I put my name in the waiting list with local dealer. I am #392 on the list for Nikon and #278 in list for Canon. I will buy which ever is available first.
I wonder what would the other cameras that are expected before Christmas, look like. According to local dealer Sony will introduce a new 28MP camera with live view and camcorder functions, before Christmas. Panasonic is expected to introduce a similar camera also.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

The new cameras are not a threat to RED. These are cheap still cameras that allow people to record the scene with motion and sound along with still pictures. These are not movie cameras. But for consumers this is a great product. I love these new cameras. I put my name in the waiting list with local dealer. I am #392 on the list for Nikon and #278 in list for Canon. I will buy which ever is available first.
I wonder what would the other cameras that are expected before Christmas, look like. According to local dealer Sony will introduce a new 28MP camera with live view and camcorder functions, before Christmas. Panasonic is expected to introduce a similar camera also.

Canon 5D Mark II supposed to be a professional photo DSLR camera as I know well.