DSMC v6.0.23 Release

[Trent Lillehaugen]

Seems to be working a little better than before, although I have seen the yellow aperture thing a few times already-- not even sure what that's supposed to indicate.

We have transitioned to the idea of a TARGET aperture and CURRENT aperture (similar to how we handle REDCODE). The TARGET aperture is your setting, the CURRENT aperture is what is being reported back by the lens. We always show the CURRENT aperture but show it as yellow if the TARGET does not match the CURRENT.

This can happen:
- on zoom lenses with a variable aperture.
- our aperture list (in either 1/4 or 1/3 stops) does not align exactly with what the lens can achieve (or at-least reports back).
- temporarily if you make a large aperture change and it takes time for the lens to report the change (we really should add a timeout in the UI to handle this case better).
- if you change the lens to a lens that no longer supports the target aperture setting.

 

[Joan Poggio]

We have transitioned to the idea of a TARGET aperture and CURRENT aperture (similar to how we handle REDCODE). The TARGET aperture is your setting, the CURRENT aperture is what is being reported back by the lens. We always show the CURRENT aperture but show it as yellow if the TARGET does not match the CURRENT.

This can happen:
- on zoom lenses with a variable aperture.
- our aperture list (in either 1/4 or 1/3 stops) does not align exactly with what the lens can achieve (or at-least reports back).
- temporarily if you make a large aperture change and it takes time for the lens to report the change (we really should add a timeout in the UI to handle this case better).
- if you change the lens to a lens that no longer supports the target aperture setting.

Excellent, I was wondering if it was a bug on 6.0.20

Thanks for the quick fix on Canon mount, it is working flawlessly for me now:
1. All my Canon lenses stabilisation work now
2. Iris control working perfectly on all lenses now
3. Auto focus is now working
4. AE is now working as well in Stills mode

Love what you've done with the SH 1-4 buttons as well.
You guys keep on delivering way beyond my personal expectations. Yup, I upgraded to Epic-Dragon a month ago, but with this upgrade, feels like I got a free upgrade to a new camera!
Thanks so much RED
cheers!

 

[Mike P.]

Just to confirm; 6.0.28 is a release build?

EDIT: Just checked; Yep, it is!

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

I found a bug using Epic Dragon.

When SSD display is set to Time Remaining instead of Percentage, and you use the Magnify tool, the Time Remaining increases dramatically.

For example, when shooting 6K FF at 4:1 compression, 23.98 FPS, on a formatted 512GB Mini-Mag, the Time Remaining is 0:38. When I enter the Magnify tool, the Time Remaining changes to 6:17. This can cause confusion by making the operator think the camera will record only that magnified crop of the sensor. When I exit Magnify, the Time Remaining goes back to 0:38.

I've seen that bug before too. I'm guessing because the sensor crops in to show the magnify, it is showing the cropped record time as well (I.E its showing how long you could record @2k instead of whatever you were shooting before.)

 

[Nino Tamburri]

Can any canon L series or Zeiss ZE lens users confirm that 6.0.28 firmware fixes the lens communication problem?
6.0.23 totally disabled all communication between canon ef lens mount and the camera for me



UPDATE: Seems like the Canon mount communication problem is fixed and all my lenses are working as previously

 

[Serge Polevitzky]

Firmware & Canon EF Lenses (f/stop behavior especially)WithWith

Firmware & Canon EF Lenses (f/stop behavior especially)WithWith

Nino -- No, I don't think 6.0.28 fixes the problem, at least for me. I have tried the following:

6.0.28 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
6.0.23 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
5.3.42 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
5.3.35 [untested]
5.3.33 [currently installed and seems to work "most of the time"]

With 5.3.33, I get frequently get the f/stop noted in the viewfinder changing briefly to yellow & then back to white when I change f/stops.
I don;t remember this with my Scarlet Dragon. The lens seems to behave as it should when the brief yellow comes on & then changes to white,
just a bit of strangeness.

I can hear the iris changing & the viewfinder changes brightness, so I'm assuming "comm is good" when I hear & see this when changing
f/stops.

Occasionally, I get a solid N/A noted as the f/stop, most often immediately after booting. A reboot will often fix this. Can't say that having the lens
in AF or MF, or if IS is On or Off when first booting, has any impact on success or failure.

Successfully tested w/ the Canon 35mm f/2 IS and Canon EF 24-70 f/4 IS. Also with 5.3.33, I can even use the Tamron 15-30 VC
and change f/stops, etc. Other EF lenses may have different success profiles -- haven't had a chance to test others -- yet. Again, occasionally,
communication with the lenses goes sideways & I need to reboot.

The above was done on an Epic-Dragon with the EF Motion Mount.

Anyone else have input ?

Tx,
Serge

Can any canon L series or Zeiss ZE lens users confirm that 6.0.28 firmware fixes the lens communication problem?
6.0.23 totally disabled all communication between canon ef lens mount and the camera for me

 

[Joan Poggio]

Nino -- No, I don't think 6.0.28 fixes the problem, at least for me. I have tried the following:

6.0.28 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
6.0.23 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
5.3.42 [tested & communication with lenses not working reliably]
5.3.35 [untested]
5.3.33 [currently installed and seems to work "most of the time"]

With 5.3.33, I get frequently get the f/stop noted in the viewfinder changing briefly to yellow & then back to white when I change f/stops.
I don;t remember this with my Scarlet Dragon. The lens seems to behave as it should when the brief yellow comes on & then changes to white,
just a bit of strangeness.

I can hear the iris changing & the viewfinder changes brightness, so I'm assuming "comm is good" when I hear & see this when changing
f/stops.

Occasionally, I get a solid N/A noted as the f/stop, most often immediately after booting. A reboot will often fix this. Can't say that having the lens
in AF or MF, or if IS is On or Off when first booting, has any impact on success or failure.

Successfully tested w/ the Canon 35mm f/2 IS and Canon EF 24-70 f/4 IS. Also with 5.3.33, I can even use the Tamron 15-30 VC
and change f/stops, etc. Other EF lenses may have different success profiles -- haven't had a chance to test others -- yet. Again, occasionally,
communication with the lenses goes sideways & I need to reboot.

The above was done on an Epic-Dragon with the EF Motion Mount.

Anyone else have input ?

Tx,
Serge

Hi Serge, I have tested succesfully with Tokina 11-16mm, Canon 24-105, Canon 70-200 and this one with a 2x. I used 6.0.20 for several days and it was really painful because the camera kept freezing, lenses kept being unrecognised half way through, etc... This update has fixed all that plus:
1. Stabilisation now works (which means mount is communicating effectively)
2. AF is working reliably (again, means there is communication)
3. Changing from stills to motion is quicker for me than before (this of course is subjective)

Don't worry about the iris going yellow, this is what Trent had to say about it:

We have transitioned to the idea of a TARGET aperture and CURRENT aperture (similar to how we handle REDCODE). The TARGET aperture is your setting, the CURRENT aperture is what is being reported back by the lens. We always show the CURRENT aperture but show it as yellow if the TARGET does not match the CURRENT.

This can happen:
- on zoom lenses with a variable aperture.
- our aperture list (in either 1/4 or 1/3 stops) does not align exactly with what the lens can achieve (or at-least reports back).
- temporarily if you make a large aperture change and it takes time for the lens to report the change (we really should add a timeout in the UI to handle this case better).
- if you change the lens to a lens that no longer supports the target aperture setting.

 

[Serge Polevitzky]

Thanks for your input !

Thanks for your input !

Joan -- Good to meet you & thanks for the input ! Including Trent's input ! I can check the "momentarily going yellow"
off the list as being "suspicious behavior."

We may be in "violent agreement" here as to 6.0.28 working flawlessly -- from others, I've gathered that 6.0.28 isn't working
all that well for them & they've also dropped back. So how can we be in any sort of agreement ?

Turns out that our lens types don't overlap. It could be different behavior with different lenses & I tested with an Epic Dragon. What
do you shoot/test with ? Also, do you ever see "N/A" or a blank listed for the f/stop ? It would be maybe once in 10 - 20 power ups.

For me, there are three possible suspects: (1) the brain having a hardware intermittent, (2) the Motion Mount having a hardware intermittent,
or (3) a subtle bug in the firmware. I'm seeking an indictment ... my just-checked-out-OK Canon Ti Mount arrives back from RED today, so this
should give me a second opinion as to the Motion Mount being the guilty party.

More to follow .... and thanks again. It may be that we need a "these lenses really work list," which could be slightly different from "these lenses
are supported list" from RED.

Tx,
Serge

Hi Serge, I have tested succesfully with Tokina 11-16mm, Canon 24-105, Canon 70-200 and this one with a 2x. I used 6.0.20 for several days and it was really painful because the camera kept freezing, lenses kept being unrecognised half way through, etc... This update has fixed all that plus:
1. Stabilisation now works (which means mount is communicating effectively)
2. AF is working reliably (again, means there is communication)
3. Changing from stills to motion is quicker for me than before (this of course is subjective)

Don't worry about the iris going yellow, this is what Trent had to say about it:

 

[Joan Poggio]

Joan -- Good to meet you & thanks for the input ! Including Trent's input ! I can check the "momentarily going yellow"
off the list as being "suspicious behavior."

We may be in "violent agreement" here as to 6.0.28 working flawlessly -- from others, I've gathered that 6.0.28 isn't working
all that well for them & they've also dropped back. So how can we be in any sort of agreement ?

Turns out that our lens types don't overlap. It could be different behavior with different lenses & I tested with an Epic Dragon. What
do you shoot/test with ? Also, do you ever see "N/A" or a blank listed for the f/stop ? It would be maybe once in 10 - 20 power ups.

For me, there are three possible suspects: (1) the brain having a hardware intermittent, (2) the Motion Mount having a hardware intermittent,
or (3) a subtle bug in the firmware. I'm seeking an indictment ... my just-checked-out-OK Canon Ti Mount arrives back from RED today, so this
should give me a second opinion as to the Motion Mount being the guilty party.

More to follow .... and thanks again. It may be that we need a "these lenses really work list," which could be slightly different from "these lenses
are supported list" from RED.

Tx,
Serge

Hi Serge

I was getting the N/A with the 6.0.23 with all my lenses as you describe it for 6.0.28. In my three years of owning RED I had never had this kind of behaviour from any beta or release firmware. I did get spooked thinking maybe there was something wrong with my camera, as you suggest might be the case with yours. I posted my findings on 6.0.23 here in the hope that others would let me know if they were experiencing the same problem. I also sent a log to RED to which they replied to me letting me know they were aware of the issue specifically with Canon mount. Non the less, I tried to use the 6.0.23 as buggy as it was, for a shoot. I finally gave up as it was not allowing me to do my job, and I reverted to the previous release firmware, 5.3.42, which then worked like a charm for me. I do not have a Canon Motion Mount but a regular Canon Al mount. I also agree that I do not have the same lenses you do. Myself and a friend of mine with similar equipment, have tested over the weekend. OK, maybe I shouldn't call it testing as there is no methodology. I should say instead that we used our cameras on paid for shoots, under the normal stresses of documentary work. In the two days that my friend in the UK, and myself here in Kenya, used the firmware, the only problem that arose was a playback issue. Please keep us posted if you have issues as well with your Canon Motion Mount.

cheers

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

My 5" lcd sometimes refuses to be able to toch, Mostly fixed after a reboot
Also thumbwheel and arrow buttons refuse to work after à while.
M-x epic.

 

[Nino Tamburri]

I can confirm i had issues with all my canon and zeiss lenses with no communication from the EF mount in the 6.0.23 firmware release, but my issues have been resolved with the 6.0.28 update.
All my L series canons, Zeiss ZE and Tokina 11-16 all work properly as before.

 

[Serge Polevitzky]

Joan -- OK, this is with 5.3.33 & Epic Dragon.

With Ti Canon Mount that just returned from RED, and was checked out AOK:
15-30 Tamron not recognized at all (as was the case with 5.3.41, which was the firmware installed when I got the Epic Dragon.
Also, nnder Lens ---> Mount Type Unknown
Tried the Canon 35mm f/2. Lens Recognized! Under Lens ---> Shows current f/stop as expected

Swapped mounts ---

Back to the Canon Motion Mount
15-30 Tamron recognized & works
Canon 35mm f/2 works
Note: occasionally, lenses not recognized (maybe once in 10 boots), but a reboot 'cures' this.

I did other tests, but it sure looks as if the firmware/mount behavior is different between this Motion Mount & this 'regular" Canon mount.

Oh, and curiously, with both this Motion Mount & this 'regular" Canon mount, f/6.3 shows up as a yellow f/6.1 -- all other f/stops show as expected in white -- you seeing this ?

Tx,
Serge

Hi Serge

I was getting the N/A with the 6.0.23 with all my lenses as you describe it for 6.0.28. In my three years of owning RED I had never had this kind of behaviour from any beta or release firmware. I did get spooked thinking maybe there was something wrong with my camera, as you suggest might be the case with yours. I posted my findings on 6.0.23 here in the hope that others would let me know if they were experiencing the same problem. I also sent a log to RED to which they replied to me letting me know they were aware of the issue specifically with Canon mount. Non the less, I tried to use the 6.0.23 as buggy as it was, for a shoot. I finally gave up as it was not allowing me to do my job, and I reverted to the previous release firmware, 5.3.42, which then worked like a charm for me. I do not have a Canon Motion Mount but a regular Canon Al mount. I also agree that I do not have the same lenses you do. Myself and a friend of mine with similar equipment, have tested over the weekend. OK, maybe I shouldn't call it testing as there is no methodology. I should say instead that we used our cameras on paid for shoots, under the normal stresses of documentary work. In the two days that my friend in the UK, and myself here in Kenya, used the firmware, the only problem that arose was a playback issue. Please keep us posted if you have issues as well with your Canon Motion Mount.

cheers

 

[Tehben Dean]

Jarred, why no thumbnails on Epic MX? Any plans to include in the future?

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

RELEASE BUILD V6.0.28 PROBLEMS

RELEASE BUILD V6.0.28 PROBLEMS

Two days ago I made the mistake to update my Epic-X with the RV6.0.28 firmware and today i shot a 14hour TV commercial without touch screen capabilities.

We had to reboot the camera constantly in order for the touch screen to start working again. Then, it worked for 30-40 minutes and after that, depending on what we were pressing, it was stopping again to work. When touch screen was disabled the monitor's side keys were stopping as well.

I used a canon mount but didn't notice anything weird with the lenses.

Please, fix the touchscreen again!

 

[Joan Poggio]

Joan -- OK, this is with 5.3.33 & Epic Dragon.

With Ti Canon Mount that just returned from RED, and was checked out AOK:
15-30 Tamron not recognized at all (as was the case with 5.3.41, which was the firmware installed when I got the Epic Dragon.
Also, nnder Lens ---> Mount Type Unknown
Tried the Canon 35mm f/2. Lens Recognized! Under Lens ---> Shows current f/stop as expected

Swapped mounts ---

Back to the Canon Motion Mount
15-30 Tamron recognized & works
Canon 35mm f/2 works
Note: occasionally, lenses not recognized (maybe once in 10 boots), but a reboot 'cures' this.

I did other tests, but it sure looks as if the firmware/mount behavior is different between this Motion Mount & this 'regular" Canon mount.

Oh, and curiously, with both this Motion Mount & this 'regular" Canon mount, f/6.3 shows up as a yellow f/6.1 -- all other f/stops show as expected in white -- you seeing this ?

Tx,
Serge

Hi Serge

I think you should send a log to Red and explain to them the issues with both mounts. But you are talking about behaviour in 5.3.33... maybe you should try, now that you have both mounts, 5.3.42 and 6.0.28 . Do not touch 6.0.20 at all, which was causing a lot of problems.
cheers

 

[Serge Polevitzky]

Joan -- Thanks for your "nudge."

Done. Sent log file a couple of days ago & Engineering is looking at it; log file has results of a more detailed series of tests: 24-70 f/4 IS, 35mm f/2 IS, 28mm f/2.8 IS, & Tamron 15-30mm f/2.8 IS
with tests on Canon Ti EF Mount & Canon Motion Mount, all under firmware 6.0.28 on Epic Dragon. All 3 Canon lenses worked with both Ti & Motion mounts on 6.0.28, all lenses showed yellow f/6.1 for f/6.3
with both mounts. Ti Mount does not see the Tamron (except occasionally for a very, very brief time & then reverts to "N/A"), but the Motion Mount sees it reliably.
Occasional lens glitches with both mounts, but this can be 'cured' with a reboot ... or two. I've dropped back to 5.3.33 as it seems just a little bit more stable than 6.0.28 (or maybe it's because I've had a little more time with 5.3.33 & just "trust" it a bit more).

Since others, including yourself, seem to be confident in 6.0.28, I'm beginning to think it's either my somewhat unusual mix of lenses, or maybe an intermittent in the Epic brain. Also possible, a "race condition" in the firmware that these lenses catch, but other lenses do not. After all, this is a situation of one CPU (the brain) talking to another CPU (in the lens) & the Canon communication protocol (IIRC)
is not exactly "Completely Robust." You send a command to the lens & wait until you think the lens has correctly received the command & assume the lens has had time to do the right thing, and then you
can send the next command. No "Ack" back from the lens, no 3-way TCP/IP like handshake between the asynchronous processes (brain & Lens).

I truly sympathize with RED in their efforts to reverse-engineer support for Canon lenses. Imagine how eager Canon is to help RED (RED, the guys who continually embarrass Canon & compete directly with Canon). I doubt that RED has an official "This Is Exactly How to Control our Lenses"" guide book from Canon. And even if they do, the basic premise of sending a command to the lens & assuming everything worked OK only works "most" of the time.

And each lens has its own CPU & its own quirks (because each is different physically -- different masses of the iris & optical elements, for example).

Sorry to blather on ... I'm really curious as to what's the root cause.

Best !
Serge

Hi Serge

I think you should send a log to Red and explain to them the issues with both mounts. But you are talking about behaviour in 5.3.33... maybe you should try, now that you have both mounts, 5.3.42 and 6.0.28 . Do not touch 6.0.20 at all, which was causing a lot of problems.
cheers

 

[Joan Poggio]

Joan -- Thanks for your "nudge."

Done. Sent log file a couple of days ago & Engineering is looking at it; log file has results of a more detailed series of tests: 24-70 f/4 IS, 35mm f/2 IS, 28mm f/2.8 IS, & Tamron 15-30mm f/2.8 IS
with tests on Canon Ti EF Mount & Canon Motion Mount, all under firmware 6.0.28 on Epic Dragon. All 3 Canon lenses worked with both Ti & Motion mounts on 6.0.28, all lenses showed yellow f/6.1 for f/6.3
with both mounts. Ti Mount does not see the Tamron (except occasionally for a very, very brief time & then reverts to "N/A"), but the Motion Mount sees it reliably.
Occasional lens glitches with both mounts, but this can be 'cured' with a reboot ... or two. I've dropped back to 5.3.33 as it seems just a little bit more stable than 6.0.28 (or maybe it's because I've had a little more time with 5.3.33 & just "trust" it a bit more).

Since others, including yourself, seem to be confident in 6.0.28, I'm beginning to think it's either my somewhat unusual mix of lenses, or maybe an intermittent in the Epic brain. Also possible, a "race condition" in the firmware that these lenses catch, but other lenses do not. After all, this is a situation of one CPU (the brain) talking to another CPU (in the lens) & the Canon communication protocol (IIRC)
is not exactly "Completely Robust." You send a command to the lens & wait until you think the lens has correctly received the command & assume the lens has had time to do the right thing, and then you
can send the next command. No "Ack" back from the lens, no 3-way TCP/IP like handshake between the asynchronous processes (brain & Lens).

I truly sympathize with RED in their efforts to reverse-engineer support for Canon lenses. Imagine how eager Canon is to help RED (RED, the guys who continually embarrass Canon & compete directly with Canon). I doubt that RED has an official "This Is Exactly How to Control our Lenses"" guide book from Canon. And even if they do, the basic premise of sending a command to the lens & assuming everything worked OK only works "most" of the time.

And each lens has its own CPU & its own quirks (because each is different physically -- different masses of the iris & optical elements, for example).

Sorry to blather on ... I'm really curious as to what's the root cause.

Best !
Serge

No worries, looks like you are doing the right thing and have got the right thought pattern on your side. Yes, I'm sure RED are doing their best. Must not be easy with so many protocols out there and having to translate one system to the other as you mentioned. At the end, in a way, we have to do the same and figure out the quirks of what we have built and make it work for us. But I love it... it's all worth it when I see what the end result looks like.

cheers!

 

[Todd Gilpin]

i was noticing that since updating to this newest build that no matter what Black Shade calibration I have loaded, the camera status screen displays the temp and time for the factory calibration. I'm pretty confident that it is loading the different calibrations, as my "E" indicator does change to yellow or red until I set the appropriate shutter speed for that calibration, so I think it's just a glitch in the status screen.

Just a minor glitch. I have it doing the same thing on an Epic Dragon and a Scarlet Dragon.

 

[Nino Tamburri]

I still have issues with 6.0.28 after the EF mount problems of not recognising EF mount lenses in the previous firmware version.
I though it solved some problems but after one day of shooting with this build. I had several major issues.
The camera would not find my TI PL mount on booting (ef mount ok) and the redtouch would only display a frameline and no other control information even after several boots.
I also had a 'critical error contact red' message on booting the camera at one time after several boot attempts, I've never seen this before on my camera.
Im rolling back to 5.3.42 until these issues are ironed out.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Yay! Upgraded to 6.0.31 and stills is ALIVE! Lots to try out... sweetness! Thanks RED!