DSMC is not going to happen...

[Diego Querzoli]

DQ nice work...

Thank you everyone for the early kind words....

We at CAVALLARIA are serious about our REDs.... RED has made it possible for us to make otherwise unimaginable images (or should i say "images that we could ONLY imagine").

Even before the MX sensor we were already publishing frames from our RED 4376 in VOGUE ( jan 009) and we have always kept our jaws on the floor with the constant development and suport from RED.... EPIC program is nonetheless EPIC and we can only hope for what is coming to the industry's way..... the standards were elevated and we all only have to gain with it.... we see so many people doing amazing work with this new tool and it only inspire us to do better and better.....


thank you for your simple words jarred, they do mean a lot....


keep on rocking.....


dq and cavallaria

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Hi,
should not Leica S2 or other Still Cameras with Lager Sensor give You better Pictures? I just wonder why still Photographers are using RED for Photos if there are Better Choices?
Regards
jiri

Almost by definition the camera chosen is the better choice for the job. If that choice is Epic, it's because it's the appropriate tool for the job. The so called "better choices" are obviously not the better choice...

Graeme

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

 

[Jeff Carpenter]

maybe because you want to do stills and motion at the same time...?

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

 

[Ivan McCullough]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??

Leaving aside the the technical limitations and/or superior/inferior specs respectively....

Because you prefer the look from the Epic to the Leica

 

[Jeff Coatney]

From what I've seen, extracting stills from motion gives you an exponentially larger pool of images to select from. No moment is missed from the session, increasing your odds of capturing that magic frame. It also gives you footage you can use for your campaign, or even a documentary on how the famous photographer works with the famous model. We rarely get at glimpse at the rapport that's built between shooter and subject.

 

[Axel Mertes]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

I think its as simple as this:

You shoot many many frames and pick the best one out of the sequence.
For model shots this means e.g. eyes open or closed, but not half way, right posing, right hair position in air flow and so on.

For Jim's dragster hobby: Finally the full car in the image not only the back of it. (sorry, could't resist :001_rolleyes

Since I have digital photography at hand I shoot better pictures on average, because I can make "many tries" at about no cost (except sorting out the bad stuff).

And the EPIC looks like a military style DSLR, so many poeple will be attracted also by "design"...

Axel

 

[Graeme Nattress]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

Speed. Look. Motion+Stills.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Jiri,

My background is in shooting stills... for the past 20 years. I work with some of the best equipment available... 60 megapixel digital back mounted to either a technical camera or view camera (depending on the situation) and using the latest digital lenses from Schneider and Rodenstock. The first things I look at in a digital capture are the dynamic range, color fidelity and sharpness. Below is a quick test I did at the house to compare my medium format system to my Red One MX. These both look quite good. There is far more detail and sharpness in the image from my still camera, but look at the dynamic range in the Red One still.... most notably the hilight detail. This is HUGE for me as I'm often struggling to maintain detail in window views. I've had my Epic a few weeks now, and while I haven't done any side by side tests, it's range feels even more impressive. Once my Cannon mount arrives (enabling me to use Tilt/Shift lenses) I'll take the Epic out on a still only shoot and am anxious to see the results of that.

Meidum Format Digital Back... Big

Red One... Big

Looking back, I think the Red One Sample could use a hair more Red in the grading. Also notice how my Cooke Panchro/i 18mm (Red One) has way less falloff than my Schneider 35mmXL (MFDB).


Cheers,
CB

 

[Eric Lange]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

I thought I would chime in on this one.

We need very high res “things” ONLY because of a very special and unusual set of purely technical requirements purely for a mostly very technical application.
However If I was a non-technical professional photographer I would absolutely jump at the EPIC.

The simple reason being if I have the capability to shoot a sequence of high quality stills at a relatively high number of MP’s this IS extremely useful. In the old days you would use professional models, things are very staged and you would shoot zillions of rolls of film. For each theme or set of poses a lot of the shots may not work, not because of composition, not because of lighting issues or exposure or so on… It’s just a fact of nuances of body language and nuances of facial expression that if you happen to capture the wrong fraction of a single second when you depress the shutter then in most cases you have totally “blown” the shot. So OK you have motor wind on that can shoot roughly once a second, or Medium Format backs that can shoot roughly between 1.5 seconds per exposure down to half a second or slightly less. You still get into a situation where you are capturing very random slices or chunks of time. REALLY what is needed I believe is the ability to nail an expression or partial dynamic action to within 1/45 th of a second (or less) others will have different experiences and opinions on that. So if the model or subject is being directed then there is the possibility from a sequence of frames to absolutely NAIL the nuance or expression that you INTEND to capture.

I think the main benefit of the EPIC DSMC idea/model is that you can capture natural subjects i.e. people in natural setting and have a much higher chance of capturing very acceptable shots that you can select from. So for example let’s say you had to generate some shots of a restaurant with people eating. In all likely hood with a conventional medium format camera you would have to shoot virtually all day just to get a hand full of shots where people don’t have their eyes half closed or pulling weird facial expressions or kids pucking in the corner or some weird thing that you didn’t see at the time of exposures that basically renders the shot unusable or many hours of photo-retouching.

I have to admit if had $50-60k burning a hole in my back pocket (for private use) Epic would be tempting for me just for horse or equine photography. Horses are very expressive, but they are not easy to direct. So simple example, someone might want a shot of their horse. I know from experience this is extremely hard to do well. The horse’s like kids just mess about, stand oddly, make stupid facial expression just like kids and so on. You can spend an entire day shooting conventionally and NOT come back with a single exposure that is actually usable that captures the intended character of the horse and pose of the horse that the client really wants, or wants to use to remember the horse and companion by for evermore (as horse’s don’t live very long). With something like the EPIC you can absolutely nail it within a few hours. Same goes for example taking photographs of dressage horses moving in VERY precise ways, again with conventional lower frame rate systems it’s extremely hard to get the right slice of time that really portrays the quality of the work that the horse and rider are performing. With conventional frame rates you are much more likely to capture a series of very awkward looking moments simply as a result of unfavorable phasing. So again high frame rate and high res enable one to capture and select the optimum moments that all happen in way less than a second.

Put it this way, if I decided to change carreers, I know that if I had an EPIC I could become one of the best Equine photographers in the world (hands down). I think Epic would give an incredible edge over conventional systems for the capture of live, natural and undirected subjects. AND for directed or more staged set ups will save vast amounts of time and enable the photographer to really close in on his or her intended vision.

Whether you really need an EPIC to shoot a bowl of fruit or not might be another matter.

There you go.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[keith morton]

So what is the Logical Explanation?
I am not the Photographer but you might explain it to me?
Why would you choose PERSONALLY RED EPIC over Leica S??
Kind Regards
jiri

Because the EPIC automatically makes you a BIG OL' PIMP

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Great example Christopher!

Graeme

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Thanks for that....
I thought Leica's "expertise" with S2 and latest CS lenses(designed to be used with Flash Light) and with their Latitude Processing and Larger Block would be on Paper Superior....

 

[Ivan McCullough]

Thanks for that....
I thought Leica's "expertise" with S2 and latest CS lenses(designed to be used with Flash Light) and with their Latitude Processing and Larger Block would be on Paper Superior....

exactly, "on paper" they are, in certain controlled environments and scenarios.

No camera is superior to another in an outright sense. Every camera (give me some slack here) excels at something.

People choose a camera for a job based on what the demands of the job are and whether they like the look that the camera and lenses provide. (and whether they are comfortable with its workflow/downsides/unpredictability)

 

[Eric Lange]

Thanks for that....
I thought Leica's "expertise" with S2 and latest CS lenses(designed to be used with Flash Light) and with their Latitude Processing and Larger Block would be on Paper Superior....

For some requirements a more even aspect ratio is needed and higher MP sensor. However on the RED roadmap there were plans or maybe there still are for much higher res sensors. The thing that’s interesting about RED is that they have the know-how to make high resolution sensors FAST , VERY, VERY , VERY fast. Right now NONE of the medium format manufacturer’s (including Leica) know how to do that (at all).

So if RED (one day) gets to its higher res 645 (ish) cameras on up, then where does that leave the others?

It’s not inconceivable to have a very high res sensor and camera that is aimed at shorter bursts at 45 fps for a high res imager, rather than a camera that is designed for continuous shooting.

The EPIC is the first “Historical” example of the more developed DSMC approach but greater capabilities will be brought to bear in the future (no doubt), especially given Jim’s enthusiasm for every aspect of photography (or so I gather).

High frame rate (and high res) for live subjects is a real winner for any professional photographer, as you have it in the “can” much sooner and faster with greater certainty than conventional methods. That means business wise you have the edge and can do more work.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Luc Bouvrette]

Meidum Format Digital Back...

Red One...

Thanks for posting these Christopher, I'm also from a stills background and have been comparing every little detail for the past 45 minutes. I'm quite impressed by the RED One performance. I love how nuanced everything comes out, considering the lighting. Lovely.

 

[Jannard]

Many of the "Covers" come to life (motion) online. Try that with a camera that shoot 1fps.

Jim

 

[Elmer Tenkink]

A cinema camera that shoot the perfect stills is really amazing and clearly you've (jannard+red) showed some amazing work!
I only hope there would be sometime in the future a strobe sync module to hook it on.
And there would nothing stopping to use a cinema camera to every genre of photography.

 

[Jannard]

Strobes means you are just shooting stills, not motion. You just need a still camera for that. DSMCs need continuous light.

Jim

A cinema camera that shoot the perfect stills is really amazing and clearly you've (jannard+red) showed some amazing work!
I only hope there would be sometime in the future a strobe sync module to hook it on.
And there would nothing stopping to use a cinema camera to every genre of photography.

 

[Luc Bouvrette]

Many of the "Covers" come to life (motion) online. Try that with a camera that shoot 1fps.

Jim

Some (if not all) of my clients' jaws would literally drop to the floor if I showed them the possiblities of DSMC. Thanks for creating the tool I've been dreaming of for so many years.



Holy shit I'm drooling again.