DSMC is not going to happen...

[Keith Brust]

Can't wait to shoot some stills with Epic. I am building a super fast automated pano head to use with my Epic X. Hope to have it functional in a few weeks. Here's a still from my Red One before it's MX conversion.

 

[Timur Civan]

Best of both worlds with no compromises. You could even use the second HDRx stream for 5k no-motion-blur stills while shooting 5k video, both up to 60fps! RAW! Insane... There are no excuses, if it doesn't look good, it is the user.

DUDE! thats a GREAT IDEA!



EDIT: Man... just realized the second stream will be under exposed.... damn got excited for a second.

 

[Lee Saxon]

EDIT: Man... just realized the second stream will be under exposed.... damn got excited for a second.

I think you're underestimating RAW. My D700 only has ~7 stops of dynamic range and I can get totally satisfying results from shots I've mis-exposed by 1-2 stops. Epic should be able to handle at least that.

At a minimum, you could underexpose your primary track half a stop and dial in just 1 stop of HDR. With RAW (and Epic's dynamic range), half a stop over/under shouldn't be a problem at all. You can't get stills of hummingbirds at 1/96th, but it'd be good enough for a lot of stuff. And like I said, I bet you could do even more than that.

 

[Steve Wake]

I think you're underestimating RAW. My D700 only has ~7 stops of dynamic range and I can get totally satisfying results from shots I've mis-exposed by 1-2 stops. Epic should be able to handle at least that.

At a minimum, you could underexpose your primary track half a stop and dial in just 1 stop of HDR. With RAW (and Epic's dynamic range), half a stop over/under shouldn't be a problem at all. You can't get stills of hummingbirds at 1/96th, but it'd be good enough for a lot of stuff. And like I said, I bet you could do even more than that.

Lee, I can't read your mind, but if I wanted the best compromise I would overexpose the primary track a bit (as long as highlights didn't clip), so the HDRx track would be just a half stop underexposed (+1 HDRx = x track 1 stop under A track via faster shutter).

And I agree on the power of RAW.

Timur, remember ISO is metadata in the RED raw files. Since RED knows the behavior of its sensor and provides its own free RAW developer, I would assume that CINE-X is tuned to provide optimum results when the underexposed x-track has its ISO boosted. Of course, only experimentation will prove if the results meet each individual's standards. But I wouldn't write off the entire idea yet.

 

[Steven Hammer]

Lee, I can't read your mind, but if I wanted the best compromise I would overexpose the primary track a bit (as long as highlights didn't clip), so the HDRx track would be just a half stop underexposed (+1 HDRx = x track 1 stop under A track via faster shutter).

Given the wide latitude and low noise of the RED sensor, I could see using +2 or +3 on the X track for a stills stream and still being able to pull the exposure up in REDCINE-X. Especially for scenes with a lower dynamic range. This is, indeed, a pretty awesome idea!

 

[Humberto Rivera]

OK, I’m back with some changes! Let’s start with a “Zero” second shutter, a 360 degree shutter is “Zero” seconds. Shooting at 24 Fps with a 180 degree shutter (1/48 second) at an ISO of 500 to 640 would be the base line for shooting “normal motion picture footage” on the “A” track. On the “X” track a 90 degree shutter at 1/96 of a second +1 of HDRx with an effective ISO of 1,000 to 1,280; additionally a 45 degree shutter at 1/192 of a second +2 HDRx with an effective ISO of 2,000 to 3,600 FOR STILL PHOTOGRAPHY.

The HDRx exposure on the “X” track would serve TWO PURPOSES protect the highlights for a “Normal Motion Pictures Filming”, but it also work for the base exposure at 500 to 640 ISO that would need some additional work in post-production. Hidden within a well exposed “Motion Pictures Moments in Time” there is “Still Photo” that with some post work could bring it down to a normal exposure.

Anyone who wants to chime-in, please do so!

Humberto Rivera

 

[Iain Philpott]

OK, I’m back with some changes! Let’s start with a “Zero” second shutter, a 360 degree shutter is “Zero” seconds. Shooting at 24 Fps with a 180 degree shutter (1/48 second) at an ISO of 500 to 640 would be the base line for shooting “normal motion picture footage” on the “A” track. On the “X” track a 90 degree shutter at 1/96 of a second +1 of HDRx with an effective ISO of 1,000 to 1,280; additionally a 45 degree shutter at 1/192 of a second +2 HDRx with an effective ISO of 2,000 to 3,600 FOR STILL PHOTOGRAPHY.

The HDRx exposure on the “X” track would serve TWO PURPOSES protect the highlights for a “Normal Motion Pictures Filming”, but it also work for the base exposure at 500 to 640 ISO that would need some additional work in post-production. Hidden within a well exposed “Motion Pictures Moments in Time” there is “Still Photo” that with some post work could bring it down to a normal exposure.



Anyone who wants to chime-in, please do so!

Humberto Rivera

I'd love to see some 'people' portraits at that theoretical ASA (2000-3000)? Anyone have anything? I love my 5D but to be honest in terms of nice skin tones (female beauty) anything over 800 is in my eyes unusable.

 

[Timur Civan]

Lee, I can't read your mind, but if I wanted the best compromise I would overexpose the primary track a bit (as long as highlights didn't clip), so the HDRx track would be just a half stop underexposed (+1 HDRx = x track 1 stop under A track via faster shutter).

And I agree on the power of RAW.

Timur, remember ISO is metadata in the RED raw files. Since RED knows the behavior of its sensor and provides its own free RAW developer, I would assume that CINE-X is tuned to provide optimum results when the underexposed x-track has its ISO boosted. Of course, only experimentation will prove if the results meet each individual's standards. But I wouldn't write off the entire idea yet.

If im shooting a project that needs stills and Motion, im hiring a photographer. Taking a gamble on "Maybe" isnt going to cut it with my clients. Too many variables. needs testing....

Jason....... can i play w/ your epic? test this out for like 3-4 months....

 

[Zeb B]

Where does this put Phase One and Hasselblad?

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Where does this put Phase One and Hasselblad?

One of these may get lucky enough to be bought by RED.

 

[Humberto Rivera]

I'd love to see some 'people' portraits at that theoretical ASA (2000-3000)? Anyone have anything? I love my 5D but to be honest in terms of nice skin tones (female beauty) anything over 800 is in my eyes unusable.

I’m only saying that you CAN not that you SHOULD.

Humberto Rivera

 

[Eric Lange]

Where does this put Phase One and Hasselblad?

PhaseOne, Leaf, Leaf/Mamiya, Hasselblad and even Pentax (645) have digital backs and cameras that shoot stills from 40MP to 80MP and even higher. I don’t think they are going to be able to jump on the DSMC type of concept (other than lower res play through), but there is certainly a need for well controlled uncompressed high res and very high res stills with good dynamic range. Don’t forget a lot of these MF sensors are CCD not CMOS.

Ta.

Eric

 

[Zeb B]

Wondering about who actually stated that DSMC would not happen? Seems a logical convergent evolution to anyone who has been following imaging technology for the last decade.

 

[Eric Lange]

Wondering about who actually stated that DSMC would not happen? Seems a logical convergent evolution to anyone who has been following imaging technology for the last decade.

Not sure I fully understand what you mean by that?

Feel free to elaborate…

Cheers,
Eric

 

[Zeb B]

Not sure I fully understand what you mean by that?

Feel free to elaborate…

Cheers,
Eric

The title of this thread implies that someone stated DSMC would not happen. I'm just wondering who said that.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

The title of this thread implies that someone stated DSMC would not happen. I'm just wondering who said that.

Read the first post - Jim said DSMC is not GOING to happen, it already DID happen.

 

[Zeb B]

Thanks for the italics - much clearer now. Curious, when did it happen?

 

[Elsie N]

Thanks for the italics - much clearer now. Curious, when did it happen?

People were pulling stills for Magazines and the like even from the Red One. But I think the actual DSMC target was realized with the release of the Epic M

 

[Colin Hubick]

The days of strobes ARE numbered.

Jim

One thing about strobes is the ease to light a photo. I have seen setups of photographer Gregory Crewdson and he uses continues lighting and those images are incredible. But there is something to be said for a small bag of strobes and a transmitter. It makes for easier setup than constants, and to get the comparable amount of light, you need powerful constants.

Colin

 

[Jarred Land]

One thing about strobes is the ease to light a photo. I have seen setups of photographer Gregory Crewdson and he uses continues lighting and those images are incredible. But there is something to be said for a small bag of strobes and a transmitter. It makes for easier setup than constants, and to get the comparable amount of light, you need powerful constants.

Colin

That is a true statement... but one thing about having a native 800ISO sensor instead of generally a native 100ISO sensor is that you get away with alot less light.