dSmc..... ? for the still shooters

[Christopher Barrett]

Ok... like pretty much everyone else, I'm all hot and bothered over the Epic, but I wonder, truly how many of you who make at least half your living from stills will actually consider replacing your still camera with it?

Now, I'm quite the stickler on IQ, which is why I dropped the coin on my R1 after shooting one piece on the 5d2. My work is almost all architecture (stills and now motion) and I've invested pretty heavily in the best still gear.

The shit is getting cumbersome, though. For example, if I'm heading out to a project that will incorporate stills AND motion I'm bringing:

Arca Swiss Rm3d Tech Camera
Arca Swiss M2 View Camera
7 Lenses for the above
Phase One P65+ Digi Back

5d2 with 6 lenses (backup and scouting)

Red One with my new 17-50 and a couple Zeiss ZF's.

I have this fantasy about dropping all that, carrying the Epic with my Canon Tilt/Shift Glass and the 5d2 body for backup. I'd be willing to give up my 60 megapixel back if the Epic could match it's dynamic range (no prob right?), color fidelity and sharpness... well I don't expect it will ever match the sharpness but it should be pretty damn good.

Hmm...

Thoughts?
CB

 

[Jason Sinclair]

test.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

I'm not an experienced or professional still shooter, but I too am very curious about this. It's still going to be a fairly heavy camera when you through the lens, grip, battery, etc on there (I mean heavy compared to most high-end still cameras) ... from what we've seen, and with the right lenses -- it seems like the still imagery will rival the best still cameras in the world.

I hope other experienced still photographers like Ketch and others can chime in ...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I have ben a Canon shooter for long time 1Ds Bodies, currently 1Ds III, even so recently acquired a MF body,
Hasselblad H3D 39, and then sold it, I was about to purchase the new DF Body to go with the Leaf Aptus 80MP DB,
and also placed an order for the Leica S2
but after the HDRx™ news I decided to wave my options and get an Epic-M instead, and since I have several Epic-X
coming, I look to dedicate the entirety of my new Studios in Italy to the Digital workflow of RED for both Still and
Motion capture.

I think the possibilities are truly infinite for the world of photography when bringing a camera like the Epic in to the
game, no more Seconds per frames but frames per second and 120 frames per second that is

Lack of the mirror will avoid lots of vibration, sharpness will not be an issue, it has not been with the Red One will
sure not be with the Epic and or Scarlett with their Still mode.

Dynamic range will also surely not be an issue as the Epic will have more dynamic range then any pother camera out there, thanks again to HDRx™.

But at the end my decision was made because I think I can make it work for me, and also I will be doing tone of
testing in the real world as son as I get the Epic, and then, only then, will I be able to truly make a decision if this
camera will be able to replace all the other Still cameras for all work.

if the S35 Brain, will not, then possibly the FF35 will do, and if not I'm most certainly positive that the 645 Brain will
truly Blow away andy MF or even Large format camera out there for that matter.

But there will always be use for all the cameras out there, it will always be a matter of taste and workflow choices, as
well as Gear comfortability and pricing that one can afford to get for their needs.

 

[Raphael Varandas]

good choice ketch...
second that

 

[Richard Foster]

As in many things it's a question of style and comfort. I will not be giving up my Nikons. I like looking through a bright optical viewfinder for still work as i have for 35 years. I also love the ergonomics of the Nikons. And the image quality, again in RAW is tremendous. The only other way I like shooting stills is 8x10 with E5 Ektachrome or TX. Now that's resolution, but a definite studied style. But for faster compostion and shooting and flexibility I'll take a Nikon.

My problem with the Epic for stills is two things - ergonomics and lack of optical viewfinder. I always hated the ergonomics of the Hasselblads too. Although I will say that the EVF on my RED is outstanding - quite surprisingly good in fact compared to Panavison's Optical finders.

Just my thoughts. Although without years of habits I'm sure adapting to the Epic will be fine. I just think the weight and size is not as good for hand held fast moving stills work. But that weight and size for motion - now that's a different story!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

EPIC-X will fill a good portion of my stills work. However, it's no replacement for FF35 when needed and medium format. I'm eagerly awaiting the EPIC-645 more than any other camera, ever.

We still have several unknowns in regards to the EPIC-X as far as exposure abilities, long and bulb exposure shooting. A fair portion of what I shoot for stills is long-exposure stuff. I'm truly hoping the EPIC can do this... It's pretty high up on my list of wanted features. I know several other shooters, like Tome Lowe - timelapse god - are hoping for that too.

 

[Sam Taylor]

I think as Anthony and Richard say, a lot depends on your exact style of shooting, and how you shoot. If you are in the studio for a fashion shoot, with relatively short focal length lenses, wire-less monitoring, and a fancy art department taking a while for set-ups, then the working weight of the epic is inconsequential. However if you are shooting migrating birds all day, handheld with a long and heavy canon 400mm 2.8 lens, and a battery module on the back then the ergonomics and weight might be less attractive. Especially if you are also carrying all this gear up a mountain, with a large sachtler head so as to be able to film too. I intend to do both shooting styles, but for hand held with long lenses will probably use a canon body, or alternatively a lower quality shorter lens with an epic. I am for sure going to combine filming and shooting when the epic is on sticks. Great to take only one body for this, the epic!

 

[conrad gaunt]

My advice, sell your R1 and get a PXL2000.. Like me you're sick of stunning high-res images, and the PXL2000 can record uncompressed signals direct to audio cassette for up to 9 minutes at a time AND it records true black and white at totally sick super low resolutions.

Before you buy, you must try.. I wish I had before I bought the red, Fisher Price were way ahead of the game then, and still are. Red will never catch up, or on!

 

[Christopher Barrett]

I thought the PXL2000 was only for Vampire movies, tho?

Actually, the Epic would suit my work style... on Still shoots, I make maybe 5 pictures a day, so the camera stays put for a couple hours at a time.



You think all this Epic talk would motivate me to hunker down and send out the 20 or so invoices I've been dreading to do. Ugh, paperwork.

 

[Lee Saxon]

One look at that side handle that looks like it was build out of lego bricks told me this would never be my full-time still camera. Seriously, is there a rounded edge anywhere on that thing?

Four hours shooting a parade or a football game with the nicely sculpted grips of Nikons and Canons and my hand hurts. With Red's...I can't even imagine.

Such a silly thing for them to blow it on when everything else sounds so great.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

I have ben a Canon shooter for long time 1Ds Bodies, currently 1Ds III, even so recently acquired a MF body,
Hasselblad H3D 39, and then sold it, I was about to purchase the new DF Body to go with the Leaf Aptus 80MP DB,
and also placed an order for the Leica S2
but after the HDRx™™ news I decided to wave my options and get an Epic-M instead, and since I have several Epic-X
coming, I look to dedicate the entirety of my new Studios in Italy to the Digital workflow of RED for both Still and
Motion capture.

Hey Ketch, I'm in love with the Leica S2 and as a medium format camera in a beautiful DSLR body (feels better to me than Canon or Nikon) ... I would be overjoyed to own one. I also love the S lenses, even though I wish they went down to 2.0 or 1.4 ...

However, the main issue for me is more the cost of it -- since I'm not a multi-millionaire (yet!) ... I need to be reasonable and allocate only so much resources to camera spending. With the Stage 3 Epic package, extra media, some moderate priced lenses, rocket, etc I'm already looking at over $50,000 and I simply simply can't justify the $23,000 S2 body plus another $10,000 or so on lenses.

I may just end up getting a GH2 and some Leica M lenses to hold me over and give me my craving for the "Leica look" stills until it's time to put all my attention into focusing on Epic and Scarlet stuff.

Anthony

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hey Ketch, I'm in love with the Leica S2 and as a medium format camera in a beautiful DSLR body (feels better to me than Canon or Nikon) ... I would be overjoyed to own one. I also love the S lenses, even though I wish they went down to 2.0 or 1.4 ...

However, the main issue for me is more the cost of it -- since I'm not a multi-millionaire (yet!) ... I need to be reasonable and allocate only so much resources to camera spending. With the Stage 3 Epic package, extra media, some moderate priced lenses, rocket, etc I'm already looking at over $50,000 and I simply simply can't justify the $23,000 S2 body plus another $10,000 or so on lenses.

I may just end up getting a GH2 and some Leica M lenses to hold me over and give me my craving for the "Leica look" stills until it's time to put all my attention into focusing on Epic and Scarlet stuff.

Anthony

Well, with Leica there is little to go wrong with their Lenses, they simply are the World's best lenses Period!!

And you sure pay for them too, hehe.

I decided not to spend the 50k budget on the MF camera system and went for the Epic-M instead simply because I
believe hat Epic will do for me much more then the extra MP's and or larger sensor ever will, and at the end I'm no
willing to sacrifice what Epic has to offer vs. any MF Still camera, off course as said above the ultimate camera for me
will be also the Epic 645, and will not miss out on one as soon as it is ready, off course before that I will have my hands
on a FF Epic as well

 

[Christopher Barrett]

I reckon I'll hang onto the digi back. One of my biggest clients can actually tell the difference between the Phase One files and the Canon files and my Rodenstocks and Schneiders are really beautiful glass! I'm actually considering the Schneider Cine-Xenars as I'm shopping for a set of primes. The 14 blade irises on those have got to make for some gorgeous bokeh... thinkin out loud.

CB

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Hey Christopher,

If you try the Schneider Xenar's let us know what you think. I considered them before with a DSLR, but since I was focused on the 5D at the time, the set didn't cover the full frame sensor.

However, I do think they have full S35 coverage -- so they might be a good fit for the Epic.

Their pricepoint is very appealing -- and if they rivaled RPP's or Zeiss CP2's in quality they would make a great value.

Anthony

 

[AnthonyFlores]

By the way Ketch, you are still going to have your Leica C set to accompany your machined Epic, right? I'm so jealous! From what I remember, they might even start delivering around the same time ... as the first run of lenses were expected in January or February.

Just the difference in image quality I've seen from Leica still lenses with DSLR's (either with 4/3 cameras like Gh1 or using an adaptor + R lenses on Canon cameras) ... leads me to believe that Epic + Leica will be the ultimate combination.

I can't wait to see some tests and I hope some of these big productions that are adopting the Epic will perhaps experiment with the Leicas so we can see their greatness in full display. Probably not, more likely to be Panavision, Zeiss MP's or Cookes ... but can't wait to see the first feature shot with Epic and Leica C's ....

Maybe it will be YOU! lol.

Well, with Leica there is little to go wrong with their Lenses, they simply are the World's best lenses Period!!

And you sure pay for them too, hehe.

I decided not to spend the 50k budget on the MF camera system and went for the Epic-M instead simply because I
believe hat Epic will do for me much more then the extra MP's and or larger sensor ever will, and at the end I'm no
willing to sacrifice what Epic has to offer vs. any MF Still camera, off course as said above the ultimate camera for me
will be also the Epic 645, and will not miss out on one as soon as it is ready, off course before that I will have my hands
on a FF Epic as well

 

[Ketch Rossi]

By the way Ketch, you are still going to have your Leica C set to accompany your machined Epic, right? I'm so jealous! From what I remember, they might even start delivering around the same time ... as the first run of lenses were expected in January or February.

Just the difference in image quality I've seen from Leica still lenses with DSLR's (either with 4/3 cameras like Gh1 or using an adaptor + R lenses on Canon cameras) ... leads me to believe that Epic + Leica will be the ultimate combination.

I can't wait to see some tests and I hope some of these big productions that are adopting the Epic will perhaps experiment with the Leicas so we can see their greatness in full display. Probably not, more likely to be Panavision, Zeiss MP's or Cookes ... but can't wait to see the first feature shot with Epic and Leica C's ....

Maybe it will be YOU! lol.

Yeah definitely wil have the Leica Summilux C lens set on the Epic next year

BUt if I do get the Epic-M will be at first used with the RPP's with the new added Focus Markings, and some Canon Glass on the Red
Canon mount, just to have some fun in Still AF shooting mode

 

[G Lap]

I'm eagerly awaiting Epic too, but as for stills (as a solo solution) I'm trying not to get too carried away just yet. In stills terms it approximates to an APS-H sized, 14mpx, 5.4micron sensor so it remains to be seen how it will compare in terms of ultimate IQ with Nikon, Phase and Hassy's finest. Although I'm sure RED's powerful and clever processing, including HDRx, will have something to say about that.
As for handling and ergonomics, well it seems to be closer in size and heft to MF kit than a DSLR and, for me, an EVF (for stills) will take some getting used to.

I tend to think that a shooter really must need the motion capability to use a DSMC as
a stand alone solution. If you have that need though, and if Epic's IQ stands up, your kit bag could soon be a lot lighter.