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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

dsmc, an extreme case of overbombing...

First resolution in capture has nothing to do with delivery.... 9k to web will always look better than hd to web for example... Why people are still bringing that angle into resolution debates in this day and age continually baffles me...

Not saying you don't have points , it's just that angle really is disfunct. We continually see the higher capture, wether it will end up in its native res. or not will always be better quality.

The question really is where is the sweet spot from my perspective..


Secondly, You have to understand that in the production of mysterium x and monstro there will be the highest regard to, lets face it, sensitivity and response to light (iso, noise etc... they are all related to the one technical difficulty) getting the most from those sensors. This we can guarantee will be the latest technology available.... As the technology evolves we will see more dynamic range etc.... as well... You do not have to double guess that the increase in dynamic range and towards less noise is probably the most singular crucial thing on this companies agenda... It's a given.
 
I agree with the original poster...the resolution battle hopefully will die soon, just as speed issues have died for most CONSUMER computer users. I know RED has some things in the works for storage and all, but we shoot with our RED One at least a couple days a week and it's very hard to even keep up with backing up all the 4k media. LTO is SLOW, very slow. With the huge increase in resolution, RED may have a miracle in store, but the files will be even bigger and even more time consuming.

So...4K, 5K...all good enough for Hollywood right now...so it's good enough for me, for sure. (And I truly think good enough for 95% of the people on these boards.) That said, I'm all for increased dynamic range and other things like that. But I hope RED keeps in mind it is not all about resolution. There are MANY other things they could be doing to help service our purchases. Like...hmm...let me think...I'll get back to you after I read the bug-free RED Cine and RED Alert manuals. :)

Just my opinion, but the reason I will be upgrading our R1 to Epic S35 has nothing to do with resolution. It's size, weight, dynamic range, real audio connectors and just the idea that it's a V2, which unless you are Microsoft, is usually better than V1. :)
 
My grandfather holds the original patent on LCD flat screen technology. He shopped the idea to all the big companies, Xerox, IBM, etc back in the late sixties and early 70's. Why is he not a billionaire today? Because all those companies said "what would we need a flat screen for?". Now there is a flat screen LCD monitor on just about every desk and TV stand in the world.

Why do we need 6K, 9K or 28K? Maybe we just don't know yet.
 
"to be honest, 6k, 9k, 28k... who will need this in the next 5-10 years?"

I think it is not the questions about 6k, 9k, 28k or whatever resolution! The question is: Will we get a free & working Software Development Kid for the future Codecs sooner. Not like it is today, that we have cheap camerabodies and then no good going more slow going workflow, because we always wait that we really can use the Codec.

The Codec is based on JPEG2000 at the moment. But as soon as RED really manage to make its own Codec, all those who sing the "hurra"-story about cheap bodies, will soon find out that a company at the end wants to make money and it is not with the resolution of the cheap camerabodies. It is the story about the 5% information about the software & Codec that makes the profit. So we will have to wait until RED will deliver these cameras and we will see what Codec will be available with what kind of Software Development Kid.

Beside that the profit is also in the accessories. If you really read, what is between the lines. For example: why is one EPIC with a PL Mount and the ones with a higher resolution have a RED-Mount? Answer: of course you can have a PL adaptor, but will have to pay for it or you use the future RED-Lenses with the RED Mount...:) Do RED wants to establish a new standard for lense mounts? If RED leave the path of compatibility to force the people to buy there stuff. I do not know.

I think the announcement of RED was more a "sales"-driven "Hurra"-Announcment. Will this all prove itself in reality? We will see earliest end of 2009!-))

I really like the RED-Idea, but I hope we all will not wake up with a big headache form the "cheap"-body party!
 
Kevin Wild said:
I agree with the original poster...the resolution battle hopefully will die soon, just as speed issues have died for most CONSUMER computer users. I know RED has some things in the works for storage and all, but we shoot with our RED One at least a couple days a week and it's very hard to even keep up with backing up all the 4k media. LTO is SLOW, very slow. With the huge increase in resolution, RED may have a miracle in store, but the files will be even bigger and even more time consuming.

So...4K, 5K...all good enough for Hollywood right now...so it's good enough for me, for sure. (And I truly think good enough for 95% of the people on these boards.) That said, I'm all for increased dynamic range and other things like that. But I hope RED keeps in mind it is not all about resolution. There are MANY other things they could be doing to help service our purchases. Like...hmm...let me think...I'll get back to you after I read the bug-free RED Cine and RED Alert manuals. :)

Just my opinion, but the reason I will be upgrading our R1 to Epic S35 has nothing to do with resolution. It's size, weight, dynamic range, real audio connectors and just the idea that it's a V2, which unless you are Microsoft, is usually better than V1. :)
Click to expand...

You sing it...:)
 
jamyjamy said:
Will we get a free & working Software Development Kid for the future Codecs sooner. Not like it is today, that we have cheap camerabodies and then no good going more slow going workflow, because we always wait that we really can use the Codec.
Click to expand...

The SDK will be tracking along with the camera development schedule. When the cameras are ready, so will be the SDK. Support for REDcode from the new cameras will be plug and play to SDK developers which of course is the whole point of having an SDK.
 
Deanan said:
The SDK will be tracking along with the camera development schedule. When the cameras are ready, so will be the SDK. Support for REDcode from the new cameras will be plug and play to SDK developers which of course is the whole point of having an SDK.
Click to expand...

I hope so..:) Build16 is not really working at the moment. Even the Sratchsystem still have problems with it. We will see!

Will there be a new RED-Codec in the future or will still be based on JPEG2000? And will it be for free?
 
I gotta say, the 617 (and also its relatively ridiculously low price) was a pretty great announcement. As a large format photographer and a filmmaker who has at various moments dreamed about how great it would be to shoot 4x5 or 8x10 film at 24 FPS, I can imagine some amazing things that some enterprising artist/filmmaker could do with that camera. Hell, I can think of a ton of things off the top of my head that I'D want to do with it if I had the money.

Also, the other thing is of course, that since RED is going this far so fast, it puts itself in a very strong position to play a huge determining role as to how the future high end imaging world unfolds with regards to the market, standards, projection, etc. And have to say, I can't think of another group of people I'd rather have at the helm at this point.
 
We don't expect that everyone will want a 617, but we have already had enough feedback that warrants doing it. Plus... I want one.

Jim
 
For Christ's sake. What's with all the complaining?
It's not like they build a 28K camera and offer yu no other choice. You have every choice! Most versatile sensor program, unprecedented dynamic range (for motion that is), and prices not to beat in a long, long time. If you don't think a 28k pixel bomb is necessary - don't buy it.
For a while you could easily ask: Who needs 70mm film? There are only a bunch of theatres and a bunch of cameras in the world.
Enter the visionaries: Now we have Dark Knight, emerging 3D, Imax having their best time in decades. Because a few crazy guys looked at the big picture. And they saw it was beautiful.
Naysayers have tiny wieners! :)
 
i was hoping that the kindergarten would not join us on this discussion and that the level of argumentation would stay mannered, but now.. benni hit the deck.

this forum is overflowing with this fanboy bullsh**t and is really annoying to read or get information from.

so, wiener sizes aside, maybe i can get a real working reliable r1 camera before you guys flood the market with the other half ready stuff?

and if i want a large wide format digital i can already buy it right now, seitz 6X17 - 160mp - 35000$...

i`ll discuss the rest with my rental guys in private, i think that`s a more appropriate way to get information.

bye
 
Man, I can't believe all the complaints rolling in... Maybe Red is not for YOU? Go with another company.
 
wondocam said:
i was hoping that the kindergarten would not join us on this discussion and that the level of argumentation would stay mannered, but now.. benni hit the deck.

this forum is overflowing with this fanboy bullsh**t and is really annoying to read or get information from.

so, wiener sizes aside, maybe i can get a real working reliable r1 camera before you guys flood the market with the other half ready stuff?

and if i want a large wide format digital i can already buy it right now, seitz 6X17 - 160mp - 35000$...

i`ll discuss the rest with my rental guys in private, i think that`s a more appropriate way to get information.

bye
Click to expand...

Seitz 617 is based on a scanning back needing a full fledged XP machine hooked up at all times and is purpose built to order - a really special tool for panoramas, customized to each client - nothing like a general camera which supports flash or series of shots or even motion without skew.
MHO
 
Seriously: No one really needs a 28K image except for giant panoramic printouts or multiple projector setups. But that's not the point. The EPIC 617 is a great first step towards a lenticular camera. Or you could tweak it for bracketing and get insane dynamic range and close to zero noise!
Output formats won't be larger than 4k for a long time. It's all about subpixels and what you can do with them.
 
Count me in Jim, 617, I want one.
Aloha
-A
 
JasonMurphy said:
I gotta say, the 617 (and also its relatively ridiculously low price) was a pretty great announcement. As a large format photographer and a filmmaker who has at various moments dreamed about how great it would be to shoot 4x5 or 8x10 film at 24 FPS, I can imagine some amazing things that some enterprising artist/filmmaker could do with that camera. Hell, I can think of a ton of things off the top of my head that I'D want to do with it if I had the money.
Click to expand...

Please share some of these ideas. I also think it's awesome but I don't know much about large format photography and I was having trouble imagining how you would get moving images back to the screen. I was also startled to see it has an aspect ratio of 3.3:1; the ghost of Sergio Leone must be delighted.

So, Jim...since you want one (which is justification enough...) where do you plan to watch the resulting footage?
 
"and if i want a large wide format digital i can already buy it right now, seitz 6X17 - 160mp - 35000$..."


bye[/QUOTE]

the seitz is a scannnnnn back, totally different beast, like apples and oranges.
-A
 
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