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DSMC a misnomer?

E

Ethan Cooper

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From a video aspect I loved the announcements I saw from Red today, but the more time I've had to chew on things, the more the idea of DSMC just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept, but isn't it about having the option to shoot both stills and video from the same basic sensor platform? If so, I've run some numbers and I just don't see the feasibility of using one camera for both applications. Read on to see what I mean.

Let's compare the comparably priced 5D MkII to the 2/3" Scarlet.

5D MkII: $2700 (body only)
2lbs w/batt & card
36 x 24mm 22 Mp Sensor
14 bit A/D
Raw (stills)
ISO 50-25600
1080p max 12 minutes record time
MPEG4/h.264 codec
Audio options - limited
Manual control (video) - limited

2/3" Scarlet (brain only) $2500
3lbs alone
10.1 x 5.35mm 4.9 Mp Sensor
12 bit A/D
Raw (stills)
ISO - ?
3K (3072 x 1620) video frame
record time - ? (more than 12 minutes you can bet)
Audio options - TBD, but sure to include XLRs as an option
Manual control (video & stills) - full manual control

All said and done for roughly the same price the Scarlet should crush the Canon in video quality, the Canon should crush Scarlet in still image quality.

To have a single camera that will do both equally as well, if you're judging on sensor size, Mp count and A/D processing you have to spend upwards of $35,000 on an Epic FF35 Monstro system. That's body only.

Instead of dreaming of the perfect all-in-one, it'll be far less expensive to buy a Scarlet for video, and a 5D for stills.
________
Life saber vaporizer
 
If you can live with H.264, 30fps and skew... buy the 5D II. It certainly saves you money. It is a great stills camera.

Jim
 
canon should hire you.. lol
 
Ya know.. my Miata(a silver bullet for the freeways) would make for a terrible off-road vehicle... that's why I also own a Jeep CJ-5. :) I think Red has some awesome video cameras... a silver bullet for off-hollywood productions(not to say Red cameras are not IN hollywood productions too... :matrix: ).

my $0.000002...

~Sarah
 
Looks to me like RED makes GREAT cinema cameras, with excellent still-grab quality, which will double as great still cameras if they' ever add an option for an optical viewfinder.

Still hoping that maybe in the future they might add a brain with an optical viewfinder capability of some kind...

Not that I could afford one right now anyway, so take your time to get it right :-)
 
Jannard said:
If you can live with H.264, 30fps and skew... buy the 5D II. It certainly saves you money. It is a great stills camera.
Click to expand...

Don't misunderstand me Jim, Mr. Jannard, your Royal Highness... Sir. I'm in no way implying the Canon is better at shooting moving images than the Scarlet. It has serious flaws to be sure, I'm merely pointing out that for equivalent price both the 5D and 2/3" Scarlet have trade offs in video (5D) and stills (2/3" Scarlet) that may not make it suitable for use as a professional camera for a particular segment.

In light of my discovery that the FF35 Scarlet has roughly the same still image specs as the 5D I've been forced to reconsider my opinion about the DSMC concept. Here are my new thoughts after I've had a night to think about things.

If you're looking at using a single camera system for professional quality in both stills and video then the Scarlet FF35 is the cheapest of the new Red offerings that will fill those needs assuming you're using the 5D as your benchmark for stills. That "brain" is $12,000 and once you add all the bits and pieces you're looking at something closer to $20,000 or maybe even higher, who knows. If you're currently shooting Varicams, or XDCams then that price might make sense, but if you're shooting XHA1's and Z1's or even EX1's and you're happy with that quality then the numbers don't add up.

Although I must say this, the image you'll get out of a FF35 Scarlet will more than likely far surpass anything you can get out of any other video camera in that $20,000+ price range and as an added bonus if you get the occasional big video job you could always rent an Epic brain that will fit in with your Scarlet system and away you go shooting even better video. (stole that last point from someone here)

I'm slowly talking myself into this concept after my initial skepticism. I've been looking at it from the viewpoint of a guy who shoots HDV style cameras, but now that I'm thinking about it and looking from another angle, maybe it does make sense after all considering the quality you'll be getting image wise.

canon should hire you.. lol
Click to expand...

Can't a guy try to make a fair comparison of cameras without some jackass chiming in?

Ya know.. my Miata(a silver bullet for the freeways) would make for a terrible off-road vehicle... that's why I also own a Jeep CJ-5.
Click to expand...

There's something nice about a girl in a Jeep, something sad about a dude in a Miata.
________
Easy Vape Vaporizer
 
Now I obviously no idea how the inner workings of Scarlet/Epic are going to work, but I was curious what it would look like if the modular nature of things went one step further. What if the sensor and the processor were separate modules? So you could choose your sensor, and then choose what processing capacity you want.

In my opinion what that would do is allow for a true DSLR killer - you could choose a full frame sensor, and then have a "Stills" processor - which would be a lot cheaper and lighter than an epic or scarlet processor. It would also decrease the cost of upgrading.

But I'm sure that would create an engineering nightmare...
 
Ethan Cooper said:
Can't a guy try to make a fair comparison of cameras without some jackass chiming in?
Click to expand...
i'm afraid you misunderstood the poster.. it's obvious the post was addressed to jim, mr. jannard, his royal highness... sir.. not to you :weight_lift:
 
Some people really dont know what they want so go the easiest way:
just dont waste time here and go out and buy 5D II now. You will be probably very happy, really. ... At least for couple months :whistling:
 
Hawaj said:
Some people really dont know what they want so go the easiest way:
just dont waste time here and go out and buy 5D II now. You will be probably very happy, really. ... At least for couple months :whistling:
Click to expand...

I'd be much happier if I could go buy a 2/3" Scarlet now since I'm a video guy and not a still photographer.

I've been on these forums since pretty darn near the beginning, this is the first time I've publicly spoken a contrary opinion and it amazes me how easily I get brushed off with "just go buy a 5D".

My first and main point in this whole conversation was that if you wanted the ability to shoot good stills and the ability to shoot good video it would be cheaper to buy two single purpose cameras, say the 5D and the 2/3" Scarlet rather than pony up the cash to buy a FF35 Scarlet. That's all.
________
Buy Vaporizers
 
Jannard said:
If you can live with H.264, 30fps and skew... buy the 5D II.
Click to expand...

I can't! Where's my better option, Jim?

The Scarlet I can buy today doesn't have much skew, but it also doesn't have my favorite feature: existence.
 
Speaking of skew...

Speaking of skew...

U.K. cinematographer Alan Doyle tests skew on a prerelease 5D2...

http://www.vimeo.com/2238369

Previously, Doyle has not been shy about pointing out the 5D2's shortcomings (30p only, limited exposure control).
 
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