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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR Rig for Scarlet-X

I would say a big NO on the Vari ND's as they can affect sharpness, aren't that cheap and are a pain to use. I would highly recommend going ahead and investing in a set of 4x5.65 filters. Buy them once and be set. They will work on almost any lens - big & small - and if you take care of them will last a long time. The time you waste on set screwing filters on and off and dropping them... makes them less affordable over time and at some point you are going to need 4x5.65 anyway. Filters are like tripods. Buy quality and use them for a long time.

You easily can get by with a cheap matte box IF you do not rent to picky DP's. If you rent much then you pretty much must have an Arri. I have a Cinetech 4 stage which is almost as good as Arri... I think that you really need at least a 3 stage matte box and I use all 4 stages a lot. You will have to have an IR cut filter. You have a choice: Buy one IR cut and some ND's or buy the much more expensive IR-ND combo filters. The Schneider Platinum currently look to be the best for use on the Epic for .9 and above. I like a .6 .9 and 1.2. Sometimes you need as much as a 1.8 but not that often unless you need to shoot at T/2.8 in the bright sun.

This set at Filmtools is hard to beat for the price: http://www.filmtools.com/schneider-red-essential-kit.html

If you decide to go with screw-on's for now be sure to get the IR ND combo's for .9 - 1.8. You must use IR cut from .9 and above. .3 & .6 you can get by with nust ND but I like to always use the IR Cut with all ND. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...MHDMD124_77mm_Hot_Mirror_Neutral_Density.html or maybe the Tiffen set but I think the Format IR is better. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...DKT_77mm_Indie_Standard_Infrared_Neutral.html or a full set http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...INDPROKT_77mm_Indie_Pro_Infrared_Neutral.html
 
@ Steve thankyou for the ND filter tips .Yep those Vari ND's are bit like Ginsu Steak knives, they keep coming back !!

@ Liam DOH! Is that the fantom power issue making that sony mic unusable? Isn't it coming in an update, man I had faith in that little mic. I read somewhere else, someone used an I phone earphone set (they have a tiny inbuilt mic ) to record a guide track in the field, that was on an Epic though. Dam it didn't occur to me phantom power was going to be such an issue for such a simple camera function. I will have to give this issue more thought & thats always dangerous!
 
Hi Steve, Vari ND sharpness or affecting quality in general was my chief concern, but hadn't heard they were a pain in the ass as well! Great to have a definitive post like that :))

The last link you posted of the set of Indie Pro filters were the ones I had in mind for my screw ons. But I am still tossing up the mattebox. TRUSMT stuff looks pretty good to me, - I thought this carbon fibre looks nice. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trusmt-DSLR...ltDomain_0&hash=item4160044b88#ht_4601wt_1343
But haven't found a cheap one that holds more than two trays as yet. Will keep looking.

Really appreciate the link for the schneider filter set you posted, also being bothered to post all of the other links and your advice as well. All very good of you. Thanks.

Mike, lol, yeah it's the phantom power and your right it supposed to being enabled again, but who knows what level of priority that may be exactly... Otherwise, great solution for scratch track. Be interested in your upcoming "dangerous thoughts" :))

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
I don't have my camera yet either, and I'm curious as the mounting situation on the bottom of the Scarlet. I'm assuming I'll need a special mounting plate, and that it won't work with my existing quick release plates. Am I right in this?
 
Steve Murray said:
You will have to have an IR cut filter. You have a choice: Buy one IR cut and some ND's or buy the much more expensive IR-ND combo filters. The Schneider Platinum currently look to be the best for use on the Epic for .9 and above. I like a .6 .9 and 1.2. Sometimes you need as much as a 1.8 but not that often unless you need to shoot at T/2.8 in the bright sun.
Click to expand...

Steve- other threads seem to suggest that Scarlet/Epics don't suffer from IR like the RED ONE did and these filters are not necessary....
??

Stu Aull
Alaska
 
You guys are welcome. If I can ever make it to Australia you can buy me a beer... or three.

Not a fan of 4x4 size-only matte boxes as I think that filter size is too small. Especially for shooting 5K and IF you like to shoot really wide then the matte box gets in the way when using 4x4 filters. You really need the width. My 4 stage Cinetech Matte Box has 2 - 4x5.65 out front then a 4x4 rotating and lastly a 138mm that also rotates. I can use 4 filters with a 16-35mm Canon lens without any problems. But when I use the 8-16 Sigma I cannot use the 138 and 4x4 at 8-12mm as the lens is just too wide -- but I can still use the 2 4x5.65's.

I use the 4x4 slot for grads and specialty filters (Soft FX, Black Frost & etc), the 138 round usually gets a Pola or sometimes an ND. The Rosco IR is ALWAYS the first 4x5.65 (towards the subject) and the 2nd is usually ND. If you buy the combo IRND filters then you only need 3 stages and you can even get by with 2 most of the time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wide-3-filt...Accessories&hash=item2c612daec9#ht_3804wt_913 I have not seen nor used this but it is more what you will want and except for the lack of a 138 in the back is pretty much a Cinetech or Chroziel copy.
 
stu aull said:
Steve- other threads seem to suggest that Scarlet/Epics don't suffer from IR like the RED ONE did and these filters are not necessary....
??

Stu Aull
Alaska
Click to expand...

Correct, with the Epic not as much and you can get by with a .6 ND without IR Cut but from .9 ND and above you will get some IR if you do not use a IR Cut. And especially 1.2 to 1.8. See the great tests that Ryan did: http://www.ryanewalters.com/Videos/Tests/tests.html
 
Thanks again Steve.
Only to happy to buy you a beer or seven if your ever heading out to Sydney/Aus - just send me a PM. :cheers2:

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
z luye said:
I don't have my camera yet either, and I'm curious as the mounting situation on the bottom of the Scarlet. I'm assuming I'll need a special mounting plate, and that it won't work with my existing quick release plates. Am I right in this?
Click to expand...

Hi Z,

I think that depends on what you already have? If you list and are bit more specific there are a lot of very knowledgeable and generous REDusers on here.

Best
Lliam
 
Mike Garrick said:
My problem, as I gaze at my existing matte box, is the BIG SECRET , the vital middle of sensor to base of camera measurement. It is not in the Epic manual anywhere, everything else is! I went searching for it in Epic threads & found the exact same question posed a long time ago with no reply,I just laughed. Is it like a secretive freemason thing ;) I assume it's 90mm. (Shhhh) The point being how can anyone formulate what to discard or keep unless you know this measurement ?
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, is this the info you (and all the rest of us) need? About the centre of lensmount to camera base distance:

Jean Wallez
07-04-2011, 02:44 PM
From Curt Von Badinski (ViewFactor):

Red One Lens C/L to base: 107.7mm (As measured)
Epic-M Lens C/L to base: 95.9 mm (As measured)

The difference between the lens heights is 0.4645" (11.8mm).

http://reduser.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-60566.html?

It would of course be nice if this could be verified from more than one source.

..................

And thank you to everyone in this thread for a very very helpful exchange of experience and ideas. Much appreciated. :)
 
OK I posted this on another thread but I thought it was this thread, my bad.

Anyway at the risk of repeating myself the Gini Rig FF arrived yesterday. Where can I start? This unit is HUGE. It dwarfs any still lens FF systems out there. Build & engineering quality is precise & functional, don't drop it on your foot or you will break it....your foot that is. No play at all in the all metal gearbox, the one locking thumb lock is rock steady no slippage on the rail and is super fast for repo's. Whilst I wouldn't term this as Arri quality or for that matter price, for those who want an affordable FF system whilst squirrelling away $$$$ than this FF is well worth considering ( aren't all Scarlet buyers watching their dollars? ) . Heck for $285 ish buy one, if you don't like dispose of it on ebay. Either way I can't see how you can loose.
 
Mike Garrick said:
OK I posted this on another thread but I thought it was this thread, my bad.

Anyway at the risk of repeating myself the Gini Rig FF arrived yesterday. Where can I start? This unit is HUGE. It dwarfs any still lens FF systems out there. Build & engineering quality is precise & functional, don't drop it on your foot or you will break it....your foot that is. No play at all in the all metal gearbox, the one locking thumb lock is rock steady no slippage on the rail and is super fast for repo's. Whilst I wouldn't term this as Arri quality or for that matter price, for those who want an affordable FF system whilst squirrelling away $$$$ than this FF is well worth considering ( aren't all Scarlet buyers watching their dollars? ) . Heck for $285 ish buy one, if you don't like dispose of it on ebay. Either way I can't see how you can loose.
Click to expand...

I have a Gini rig and its just as solid as the zucuto. In fact I know people who sold theirs and got Gini rigs. If the ff is as awesome as you say I may need to get one. Do you have photos of your mounted?
 
Mike Garrick said:
OK I posted this on another thread but I thought it was this thread, my bad.

Anyway at the risk of repeating myself the Gini Rig FF arrived yesterday. Where can I start? This unit is HUGE. It dwarfs any still lens FF systems out there. Build & engineering quality is precise & functional, don't drop it on your foot or you will break it....your foot that is. No play at all in the all metal gearbox, the one locking thumb lock is rock steady no slippage on the rail and is super fast for repo's. Whilst I wouldn't term this as Arri quality or for that matter price, for those who want an affordable FF system whilst squirrelling away $$$$ than this FF is well worth considering ( aren't all Scarlet buyers watching their dollars? ) . Heck for $285 ish buy one, if you don't like dispose of it on ebay. Either way I can't see how you can loose.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike.

Was looking forward to hearing how you found it. Fair chunk cheaper than TRUSMT too, I think you just changed my mind.
Does it have hard stops as well?

Thanks again.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
Thanks Mike. I love cheesycam :D

Re hard stops, not critical. But potentially pretty useful as I could see myself or camera assistant pulling focus in
a number of setups where I might struggle otherwise.

Actually, Cinevate has a clip on Hard stop feature for their FF I believe... only like twenty bucks...
http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=185
Maybe if the designs are that similar it would work on the Gini one... From the looks I wouldn't be on it though...
 
Hi Liam ,

Mmmm hard stops. A question, can you or your C.A. just mark start & end points & work to the marks on the disc? Alternately a crank handle can also accomplish something similar by memorising the position of the handle ? Don't hard stops create abrupt stops ? (maybe someone who knows can chime in here) I don't think I have ever needed hard stops , but hey I'm a director not D.P./ cameraman. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me can contribute to this demanding craft.
 
Last edited:
Hi Mike.
Yeah definitely I can just work off marks. I don't think hard stops will necessarily create abrubt stops - they "could" of course, but you'd still be aiming to sort of ease in slightly like usual I would imagine. But a definitive focus point could provide insurance and the ability to potentially not be just solely looking at/focusing on the FF I think. So I could see this as a benefit working solo and in some situations.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
Mike Garrick said:
Hi Liam ,

Mmmm hard stops.
Click to expand...

Why do you want hard stops on the FF?

Because a lot of crappy SLR autofocus lenses have "free spinning" focus rings. That is to say, that even in their manual modes you can spin the focus ring past infinity or close focus.

For cine work this is abysmal. Why? Because suddenly all those marks on your follow focus are worthless, and you have to reacquire the marks.

Yes, in theory you could just set the lens to a known point, and then align the focus gear ring.

In practice however, the gears won't mesh at exactly the right point anymore. With many follow focus units, you can adjust the witness mark (the metal arm on the Durus and Gini that you line your marks up to). Even this won't give a precise realignment on AF lenses ... because you will have realigned the internal gearing mechanisms of the lens as well. (Which is why many AF lenses aren't completely repeatable in focus over a large number of takes.)

So ... your choices are to reacquire all your focus points, or use hard stops, or restrict yourself to lenses that have hard stops (usually just manual lenses, like the Zeiss & old Nikon lenses or any Cine lens)

You may think that I am being finicky. Allow me to assure you that with any Red camera if your focus is off at all the audience will see it. 1080p was finicky and required a lot more precision than SD ... but film and 4K/5K are another level.
 
Thanx Alexander for that, I knew there was something I was missing, I suspected it was a still lens thing . Fortunately, I like all my lenses manual, so I haven't encountered the problem the only exception are the EFL Canon Zooms. So will they be a problem? I know Scarlet/ Epic have auto focus control but is it any good in the real world ? Maybe showing my age here, but I have more faith in a manual tactile system then a software based solution. Are Epic owners actually using the in built focus control with good or better results? It would be interesting to know.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Why do you want hard stops on the FF?

Because a lot of crappy SLR autofocus lenses have "free spinning" focus rings. That is to say, that even in their manual modes you can spin the focus ring past infinity or close focus.

For cine work this is abysmal. Why? Because suddenly all those marks on your follow focus are worthless, and you have to reacquire the marks.

Yes, in theory you could just set the lens to a known point, and then align the focus gear ring.

In practice however, the gears won't mesh at exactly the right point anymore. With many follow focus units, you can adjust the witness mark (the metal arm on the Durus and Gini that you line your marks up to). Even this won't give a precise realignment on AF lenses ... because you will have realigned the internal gearing mechanisms of the lens as well. (Which is why many AF lenses aren't completely repeatable in focus over a large number of takes.)

So ... your choices are to reacquire all your focus points, or use hard stops, or restrict yourself to lenses that have hard stops (usually just manual lenses, like the Zeiss & old Nikon lenses or any Cine lens)

You may think that I am being finicky. Allow me to assure you that with any Red camera if your focus is off at all the audience will see it. 1080p was finicky and required a lot more precision than SD ... but film and 4K/5K are another level.
Click to expand...

Thanks Alexander. Very informative and that seals it for me.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
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