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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR Rig for Scarlet-X

Evan Starkey said:
Hi Lliam

It could be this

http://woodencamera.com/easy-riser-epic
Click to expand...

Yes that's exactly what I meant. Most of us are in the same boat...not used to paying these kinds of prices for camera support, and trying to make what we've got, or what we can afford, work. Over the next year we will see scores of companies producing reasonably priced, quality gear for the Scarlet, but that's not helping us now. And agree with you, Lliam, the Scarlet/Epic aesthetic is sleek, beautiful, and powerful like a sports car, or a ducati, or a weapon.

I think that I settled on a top and bottom plate (easy riser/easy top) with ribs/side arms and the LW 15mm bracket - either from wooden camera or view factor (full metal jacket), this way I can use my existing mattebox and FF (LW 15mm is the same spacing as DSLR rigs). For power, I will get a view factor AP-IDX battery plate, which uses Vmounts and attaches to the back of the scarlet. That would be my sticks/slider setup.

For handheld, I leave the top and bottom plate and ribs - but lose the rails, bracket and IDX plate. I would then attach the camera to my Westside AV shoulder rig, which would have it's own rails and vmount permanently attached and spaced out for better balance. My FF and mattebox would transfer over to the handheld rig. Maybe a QR plate would be mounted to each rig for fast changes (but not red's QR - maybe ronford bakers or something)

I feel that LW 15mm's are the way to go. As Drew pointed out, earlier in this thread, cinema 5d has a good article - http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=8754 - which mentions the height issue of Scarlet vs DSLR's. LW 15mm alleviates some of that. Most of our DSLR components will still work, or even buying them new is less expensive. Also, 19mm set ups get heavy. I AC'd an Epic gig last week and the rig was 19mm everything with an ARRI mattebox and studio FF, it was a beast and needed an O'conor head... I want to keep my rig light, compact and practical.

My 2 cents (more like 5 bucks)
 
I gotta tell y'all if yve got the bux {and i dont really but ive got fat reserves to live on ha! } Then spring for the CLUTCH. I bought the Redrock cinema setup way back in the day and would always tout its virtues, and will keep my 5d on it for sure..but when i add up all the little peripherals and the tweaking and the xtra bits and pieces and adapting the rig for different shooting conditions and the ergonomic idiosyncratics phew! How much is that time worth? My CLUTCH arrived today and its seriously an amazing piece of kit.
The engineering is through the roof, and the aesthetics (we like to pretend looks mean nothing but c'mon! plus good form usually equals better function ) Those shoulder pads just fall onto yr shoulder and the obvious flexibility with the combo of that sweeeet quick release and the bottom plate and the lock key turn ..er..things.. they are so amazingly smooth, and functional. I spent twenty minutes being amazed at the engineering of that one little component, and yes i need to get a life but seriously ive had to break out the leatherman on many a rig in the middle of a shoot and i am wayyy over it! Sounds like im doing a commercial for the Red guys (and...Action!) but its a pleasure to hold and look at and im glad i did it..(and im glad im glad cause i really wouldve hated myself if it showed up and it was a piece of crap!)

It was an impulse add on for sure when i bought all the other expensive REDtastics, but so worth it, especially if you absolutely know yr gonna have it on yr shoulder for any length of time (which ultimately is where most of those other rigs out there suffer an amazingly big deficit )
I'll put up a pic when i get it fully loaded if anyone wants to check it.. and hopefully i'll still be livin in the afterglow!
 
Evan Starkey said:
Hey mate Eric told me a bit about your project and its a very worthy cause i know im Tas but let me know if i can help in anyway.

cheers

Ev
Click to expand...

Hey Ev,

Good man that Eric. And that's a very kind offer. Thank you.
I am actually considering a trip to Tassy in regards to a few shots. Nothing confirmed. But I'll send you a PM. Be nice to connect anyway :)

Steve,

I'll take your 5 bucks any time. Much appreciated mate.

So from your setup I'm guessing you haven't ordered a side handle?
I'm considering a very similar setup, but with only left side of ribs - also a top handle and a side handle. And probably offset my Red touch.
Can I ask what your concerns with the RED QR plate is that you mentioned. Appreciate your input Steve. Thanks.

Best
Lliam
 
Some may shoot me down, but I really believe most should only be considering 15mm rods systems, particularly if you have the canon EOS mount. Face it, if you're going to be hiring in some Ziess master primes or Fujinon zooms on a job it ain't going to cost too much more to hire in 19mm rails, plates, MB & FF rig. That's what this camera is designed for, you change the specs to meet the requirements without to much stuffing around.

The other consideration is how much hand held work you are going to be doing? I know with my jobs it's not huge, sure there are times but proportionally the camera is going to be on "sticks" or other grip equipment far more. In keeping with DMSC concept there is also an easy 2nd option & that is true "Hand held". Never before has this option been so easy with digital cameras that shoot such a high end codec.

So if your watching your dollars maybe you should ask yourself, do you really need it ?
 
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Mike Garrick said:
.

So if your watching your dollars maybe you should ask yourself, do you really need it ?
Click to expand...

Appreciate that post mike. I have certainly been asking that question lol. :) And I've decided not to purchase anything until I've had a chance to play with scarlet as is.
Especially baring in mind as we will undoubtedly start to see a lot more third party products enter the market place and also innovative solutions
by all the clever people out there. I have to be able to mount LCD, Mic, and FF and obviously want a QR plate, so a few parts and a couple of handles is how I'm basically approaching it. But amazing how much even that can all add up to though - when your trying to keep your budget low.
 
Liam, if your watching your dollars O.R plates proportionally are a very high cost. You can get the same result for about $60 using manfrotto (or similar) OR. systems (don't know the model numbers but the long video ones not the short stills ones ). Mounting these QR systems onto rails is easy, have used it with F3's and the like no problems. When you buy Pro OR plate you also need a dovetail plate (or similar) to connect to a tripod head, you are talking over $1000 Aus for both at least. Manfrotto is professional mass produced quality, it is not limited run engineered & manufactured hence the costs are significantly lower. Scarlet X (brain) is no bigger than a 5D ii so this system or similar will work.

Here is a link to a thread showing Mark Toia's Epic setup light, minimal, achievable on a tight budget, sounds similar to what your going to be doing. I like his setup my only issue is mounting the touch monitor, I believe it needs to be off centred to accommodate a top handle, a must have.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?61478-EPIC-OUTFITTING-POST-YOUR-EPIC-RIGS-WITH-DETAILS-PLEASE/page4&highlight=show+your+epic+configuration
 
Hey Mike,

Just for clarification of what Manfrotto item you're talking about do you have a pic or link or anything?

thanks!

Mike Garrick said:
Liam, if your watching your dollars O.R plates proportionally are a very high cost. You can get the same result for about $60 using manfrotto (or similar) OR. systems (don't know the model numbers but the long video ones not the short stills ones ). Mounting these QR systems onto rails is easy, have used it with F3's and the like no problems. When you buy Pro OR plate you also need a dovetail plate (or similar) to connect to a tripod head, you are talking over $1000 Aus for both at least. Manfrotto is professional mass produced quality, it is not limited run engineered & manufactured hence the costs are significantly lower. Scarlet X (brain) is no bigger than a 5D ii so this system or similar will work.

Here is a link to a thread showing Mark Toia's Epic setup light, minimal, achievable on a tight budget, sounds similar to what your going to be doing. I like his setup my only issue is mounting the touch monitor, I believe it needs to be off centred to accommodate a top handle, a must have.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?61478-EPIC-OUTFITTING-POST-YOUR-EPIC-RIGS-WITH-DETAILS-PLEASE/page4&highlight=show+your+epic+configuration
Click to expand...
 
@ Brad

Here's a link to ebay, I think there is even a longer one than this. Anyway you need 2 of these mounted on 15mm blocks, the baseplate of 1 mounted on the top of 2x 15mm blocks ( similar to the ones on this thread, although I would try & find the ones without plastic heads) Then the top plate of the other mounted underneath of the same 15mm blocks. The idea is to create a sort of O.R. sandwich with the 15mm rails between the plates running underneath the camera.

Hence the top plate of the 1st O.R is mounted underneath the Scarlet X whilst the 2nd baseplate of the 2nd O.R. is attached to a tripod. This also allows for balancing the head of the tripod when mounted on "sticks". This setup will work as a DSMC concept with Canon lenses, it will NOT work if hanging a PL Fujinon or Zeiss Zoom off the front :)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manfrotto-357-Pro-Quick-Release-Adapter-357PL-Plate-/380389064155?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890f47ddb#ht_4764wt_946

Note: This setup will not be suitable for some, however if your on a budget you can be shooting with this setup straightaway whilst squirrelling away $$$ for a more expensive option at a later point in time.
 
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Mike, thank you for your two excellent posts and your time. Really appreciated mate.

Mark Toia's rig is close to what I had in mind. Had also wondered about the dove tail option price wise, and had intended to look into Manfrotto possibilities, so your post was dead on and very helpful to me.

I definitely intend on a top handle. Then another side handle, similar to Mark Toia's rig you astutely linked with the outrigger handle. Though I feel this would work better for EVF than LCD - feels too close. I've saw an epic owner mount the LCD on his Matte box instead. So considering other possible hand placements. And thinking perhaps two of the cheaper wooden camera rubber handles, set up a something a bit akin to Shane Hurlburts new MCS Man cam style.

http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/mcs-man-cam-bundle.html

LCD above the front left handle - left arm beneath, with right arm at the back would seem to make more sense to me than two hands forward with an LCD for comfort and strength.

I still need to mount offset LCD and Rhode Video mic, top handle, as well as the mini Jack adapter box. And baring in mind room for follow focus.

Greatly appreciate your further thoughts Mike or anyone else.
At the moment, I'm thinking, Wooden camera - easy plate XL or easy top X plate with an easy stick for the LCD, with a right and left rubber side handle and top handle...
http://www.woodencamera.com/store

Thanks for any help/advice everyone.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
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Lliam Worthington said:
Hey Ev,

Good man that Eric. And that's a very kind offer. Thank you.
I am actually considering a trip to Tassy in regards to a few shots. Nothing confirmed. But I'll send you a PM. Be nice to connect anyway :)

Steve,

I'll take your 5 bucks any time. Much appreciated mate.

So from your setup I'm guessing you haven't ordered a side handle?
I'm considering a very similar setup, but with only left side of ribs - also a top handle and a side handle. And probably offset my Red touch.
Can I ask what your concerns with the RED QR plate is that you mentioned. Appreciate your input Steve. Thanks.

Best
Lliam
Click to expand...
Thanks, mate!
I am buying the package with side handle, monitor, etc. I believe that I could still attach 1 side arm/rib on the side with the handle towards the back...if not, then Ill stack all four on camera left side. Keeping in mind that the package will change and evolve per shoot, I like options when I can afford them.

The RED quick release doesn't work for me. An Epic package that I have worked with many times has one. The metal release lever is really stiff on the one that I've used - it could be user error, or a bad plate, or its too new, or maybe I'm not as strong as I think I am...but I struggle with it. I have a Ronford Baker QR that was a given to me and I love that, but they are a few hundred bucks - http://www.ronfordbaker.co.uk/gen_access.html

@ Mike - good advice for sure, but I don't like the manfrottos because they have to slide all the way in and out, and sometimes that requires moving half of the gear off of your rails to get the camera off. But cost effective for sure. I have a cinevate proteus which uses manfrottos but releases straight up - but that was $280 on ebay - http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=82 and isn't the most secure plate (but a little gaff helps it grip)
 
Check out Tonaci's camera pic ( 1st scarlet thread) whilst mounted on 19mm rails the camera rig appears to be largely Wooden camera. Interesting how he as mounted the audio box at the end, I like it. However if your watching your $$$ the top & bottom plates alone come to $600 without the handles & other stuff.

I'm seriously thinking of going these Red components for handles

Top handle http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/top-handle

Attachment bracket http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/accessory-attachment-bracket

Fixed Handle http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/fixed-handle

I'm not sure if I am may also need a "dogbone" and a small mounting plate.

The idea is I already have the Scarlet DSMC handle, the above configuration gives 3 hold positions in total. Then comes the difficult bit, where to mount the Touch screen? I am hoping I will be able to mount it off centre on the Attachment bracket. This means also the attachment arm needs to be mounted off centred on the camera I believe the bracket is the same width as the Scarlet X top . Then I just need some mounting for 15mm rails maybe top & bottom still deciding.

Anyone see any holes in this?

Liam you mentioned follow focus & matte box, I'm not sure what your shooting but generally none of these options are cheap, unless you go buy some budget stuff from India . Chinese manufacturers I would put in another class, still not pro gear (yet) but worth considering maybe. You also mentioned Gini rigs, their quality is astounding for the dollars, at the moment they seem geared for DLSR with all those red thumb locks. Having said that for precision engineered components they are hard to beat in terms of price. Currently I have a "I focus FF unit" coming out to me, very similar to Cinevate Durus, I'll let you know what I think when it arrives. But heck for $285 all metal engineered including gearbox & postage. If I don't like it I will flog it on ebay. I reckon these are one of the manufacturers to keep an eye on for gear in the future.
 
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@ Steve
Individual taste I guess I was trying to find something approximating Arri dovertail system as a low low budget alternative. Another option similar to cinevate but $400 cheaper is this unit from trustmt. Not bad for the price with it's double acting thumb locks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trusmt-DSLR-camera-accessories-extend-plate-/270857688771?pt=US_Camera_Camcorder_Accessory_Bundles&hash=item3f106056c3#ht_2144wt_1179

@ Brad Yep one of those!!! I think you can get a matching base plate for that as well ?

@ Liam, Is the Rhodes mic your trying to mount for just recording a guide track? If it is this is a great thread. I really like the Tonaci's small sony plug in mic solution & it costs $33 !!!!!
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?64102-Easy-scratch-mic-solution
 
Photos of my Epic for which I’m all 19mm. But like many of you I plan to rig the Scarlet as 15mm and keep it as light as possible and also for handheld shooting. Therefore, after 4 years of trying lots of gear from ET, Zactuto and RED and for being what I like to call “thrifty” -- most would say “cheap” -- Here is what I’ve come up with.

Photos of my Epic:

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/smurray333/MG_5366.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/smurray333/MG_5368.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/smurray333/MG_5369.jpg

Lliam Worthington said:
I have been looking at GINI rigs over at Ebay as possible considerations. http://stores.ebay.com.au/GINI-RIGS-HDSLR-RIGS

GINI gear is great stuff. Great stuff. I just got my 3rd rig from him. The quality is excellent. The new FF that he is now including in some of the rigs is simply amazing, so tight and really well made that is easily worth the price alone. As you can see we are using his monitor arms for both the BOMB and the 5 & 7" RED LCD's on both the Epic and R1. I think they are much better than any of the “Israeli/Noga” arms which somehow always seem to loosen up during shooting. His new version Monitor arms now have the 15mm on the bottom so they attach directly to the rods. That is good for 15mm but means you cannot use them on 19mm rods like I am by using a Zacuto 19/15mm Zandy. Everything he makes locks tight without slipping -- including the handles with the RED One – and you can tighten them up to your taste with an Allen wrench. His gear is the best quality for the money I have seen. For a 5D & other DSLR cams his rigs are hard to beat. And I like how he improves on the designs instead of just copying.

However, his camera mount will not place the 15mm rods in the right place for the Epic or Scarlet since its designed for DSLR’s & smaller cameras so it is too tall to work on a Scarlet. It is perfect for a DSLR however as the new version adjusts both up/down and side-to-side so it makes it easy to get the matte box perfectly lined up.

The best & cheap way that I’ve found to get 15mm rods in the right place for a matte box is the Wooden Camera gear or for a few bucks more both Viewfactor and ET also make these.

BUT even as cheap as I am -- I agree with Alexander Ibrahim -- if you can find the money -- the new RED system… well, it is just so perfect for the Epic and therefore will be for the Scarlet that it will be worth the $$ longterm. Using it and 3 long Dovetail plates -- I have my Epic rigged so that I can go from tripod to shoulder mount to Glidecam and back in about 45 seconds, and that includes moving the BOMB or LCD to the lower rods and attaching two handles. This is along with some parts from the guys above you can have a very usable setup.

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/dsmc-quick-release-platform-packn For the Scarlet you can save $250.00 by buying the various parts and go with only one Universal mount but I like having two locks per rod to make the rig rock-solid on the Epic.

Since I have the RED DSMC Quick-Release Platform pack for the Epic -- For the Scarlet I’m going with the Wooden Camera top handle to leave on the camera, along with a Top Rod Riser + Tiny-versal 15mm to attach to the body when I want top rods but like that I can remove it quickly when I want lightweight. And then the Easy Riser + LW 15mm Bracket for the bottom to hold the matt box and a handle. Then using some the handles and monitor mounts from my GINI-RIGS parts I think I will have the lightest and lowest cost setup that I have been able to come up with – so far.

Someone please prove me wrong so I can save some more $$.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Steve, you're not cheap just practical.

Share the same opinion of Gini Rig stuff. I own a Gini rig with 35 Mattebox & Follow focus for a 5d ii on lower end work. I have worked & used pro gear all the time I was astounded at the build quality. I'm seriously thinking of approaching him to maybe start thinking about Scarlet / Epic bits.

If you own an Epic, 19mm rails with PL lenses is a great way to go, proportionally costs are justified. However Scarlet X' ers using EOS mounts are coming up against paying the same price as 19mm PL gear when most are using lightweight lens systems with a brain 1/3 the value , I guess the DSMC concept. I think what you proposing as a set up sounds mighty fine to this market. The big hurdle for many is a cheaper way of mounting the camera to a tripod and a rig without springing for another $1200 to $1500. Wooden Camera apparently are releasing their own base plate & dovetail configuration in the next few weeks, any suggestions for alternate baseplate options?

P.S. You mentioned in your reply that Gini rigs aren't correct height. I noticed from your pics ( by the way the link is broken, it works fine on the other thread) you have raised the height of the mattebox with another set of rails bringing it up to correct height . My problem, as I gaze at my existing matte box, is the BIG SECRET , the vital middle of sensor to base of camera measurement. It is not in the Epic manual anywhere, everything else is! I went searching for it in Epic threads & found the exact same question posed a long time ago with no reply,I just laughed. Is it like a secretive freemason thing ;) I assume it's 90mm. (Shhhh) The point being how can anyone formulate what to discard or keep unless you know this measurement ?
 
Mike Garrick said:
Hi Steve, you're not cheap just practical.

Share the same opinion of Gini Rig stuff. I own a Gini rig with 35 Mattebox & Follow focus for a 5d ii on lower end work. I have worked & used pro gear all the time I was astounded at the build quality. I'm seriously thinking of approaching him to maybe start thinking about Scarlet / Epic bits.

If you own an Epic, 19mm rails with PL lenses is a great way to go, proportionally costs are justified. However Scarlet X' ers using EOS mounts are coming up against paying the same price as 19mm PL gear when most are using lightweight lens systems with a brain 1/3 the value , I guess the DSMC concept. I think what you proposing as a set up sounds mighty fine to this market. The big hurdle for many is a cheaper way of mounting the camera to a tripod and a rig without springing for another $1200 to $1500. Wooden Camera apparently are releasing their own base plate & dovetail configuration in the next few weeks, any suggestions for alternate baseplate options?

P.S. You mentioned in your reply that Gini rigs aren't correct height. I noticed from your pics ( by the way the link is broken, it works fine on the other thread) you have raised the height of the mattebox with another set of rails bringing it up to correct height . My problem, as I gaze at my existing matte box, is the BIG SECRET , the vital middle of sensor to base of camera measurement. It is not in the Epic manual anywhere, everything else is! I went searching for it in Epic threads & found the exact same question posed a long time ago with no reply,I just laughed. Is it like a secretive freemason thing ;) I assume it's 90mm. (Shhhh) The point being how can anyone formulate what to discard or keep unless you know this measurement ?
Click to expand...


Fixed the links, thanks. The photos of my Epic have the new RED DSMC Quick Release Platform with the old R1 15mm LW attached to a Wooden Camera Tiny-versal 19mm. This is basically the same setup I use on the R1 except it has the original RED Universal mount instead of the WC version. The new RED DSMC Universal mount does not have a 3/8" in the middle like the old one and which you need for the 15mm, only has a bunch of 1/4". I really LOVE the new RED DSMC Quick Release Platform system but do not need nor can I afford it for the Scarlet. Very interested to see what WC comes up with.

No the Epic sensor center is shorter than the R1 (& usual standards) by the height of the WC Easy Riser. So that makes it roughly 84-85mm. When you add the WC or ET or Viewfactor Riser to the bottom of the Epic or Scarlet it is 90mm and the same as other cine cameras.

I'ver tried to get GINI to make some 19mm products but the language barrier has been a problem. My friend has a Korean wife so I'm going to get her to help me and see if we can get him to make some cool new stuff.
 
Thanks to both Steve's and Mike, really appreciate your thoughts and knowledge.

Re I focus Mike, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. At the moment it was the TRUSMT I had been planning on.

Re a Matte Box, I'm actually going to see just what I can hope to get away with a lens hood and the reputed fantastic coatings of the Zeiss ZE glass. Besides a decent Matte Box, good filters obviously aren't cheap either. So I'm considering a Vari ND or screw on "Indie pro Tiffens" I'm doing a micro budget feature, so trying to save every penny, yet so easy to feel like you really need to keep spending and spending... of course.

Re, scracth track/guide track Mike. Yep, you certainly have an uncanny knack for that! :) It is indeed what I was looking at mounting the Rhode mic for. I looked into the Tonaci thread you linked, thanks for doing that. Unfortunately since Tonaci was first was using it, apparently you no longer can. I'm not sure, maybe I should just go old school and forget a guide track, keep my rig cleaner and save a few bucks. Time is an easier commodity for me to find than money.

Thanks for sharing your rig thoughts, I hope to see them SOON! I'm sure your knowledge and thoughts will prove useful for many who come this way. Definitely going to have to be a Scarlet version of the epic rig thread.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
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