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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dropped Frames

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ninjaleprechaun

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Hello again all,

We are preparing for a shoot and I have heard some discussion of Red dropping frames during moving/shaking shots. I haven't encountered dropped frames except when shooting slo-mo. Could anyone here elaborate on that? Is it true for 24fps, and if so what circumstances cause it? Does it happen at 2K, or only 4K? Any insight would be appreciated.

Dave
 
You can drop frames trying to shoot over 110~113 fps to CF card in 2K. You need to shoot to RED drive to get the full 120fps in 2K.

RED Drive can drop frames if there's enough motion / bumps / vibration to cause a skip in data recording. This can happen at any resolution or frame rate.

Know what you're doing, you should be fine. If the camera is going to be in motion, use CF media where you can. Gentle motion or protecting the RED Drive will help a lot when you can't shoot on CF.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
You can drop frames trying to shoot over 110~113 fps to CF card in 2K. You need to shoot to RED drive to get the full 120fps in 2K.

RED Drive can drop frames if there's enough motion / bumps / vibration to cause a skip in data recording. This can happen at any resolution or frame rate.

Know what you're doing, you should be fine. If the camera is going to be in motion, use CF media where you can. Gentle motion or protecting the RED Drive will help a lot when you can't shoot on CF.
Click to expand...

Okay. So would I be correct in saying its purely a drive issue and 24fps on CF should never drop frames?
 
Sure.
 
Any news on this - I spoke to a cameraman today who had a dropped frames issue using red drive - all of a sudden began dropping frames (Drive was approx 30% full) started acting up all of a sudden - they switched from 4k 16x9 to 4k 2:1 to 2K - no joy moved to the Cf cards and it was fine. It seemed that the Red Drive was causing the problem (build 15 etc) - any ideas?

EDIT - on the other hand - I've just shot 3rd commercial on it in 2 weeks with (knock on wood) no problems whatsoever to Red Drive at all frame rates from 120 to 25.
 
My only solution was to wrap the cradle with a sweatshirt.

This camera guy with the drive problem - Was he switching formats on the same drive/same time?
 
Shawn Booth said:
This camera guy with the drive problem - Was he switching formats on the same drive/same time?
Click to expand...

I was shooting 4K 16x9 to the red raid, build 15 redcode 36. Camera was on an O'connor 2575 fluid head on a Chapman Hybrid on solid concrete floor, we werent tracking or doing any camera movement. After shooting for several hours the camera started dropping frames like crazy. Our drive had only reached 33% of its capacity. The drive had been formatted that morning on the camera. Switching to 4K 2:1 made no difference whatsoever - lots and lots and lots of dropped frames. We had to continue the shoot using cards shooting at 2:1 4K instead of 16x9 4K.
Its worth pointing out that the same drive i was using had been used on a shoot two days previous to approx. 70% capacity with no problems. The rental company i was using (who own the RED) rang the RED support team but at this time there still hasn't been a response from them as far as i know. Not a great first experience for me with RED.
 
StephenMurphy said:
I was shooting 4K 16x9 to the red raid, build 15 redcode 36. Camera was on an O'connor 2575 fluid head on a Chapman Hybrid on solid concrete floor, we werent tracking or doing any camera movement. After shooting for several hours the camera started dropping frames like crazy. Our drive had only reached 33% of its capacity. The drive had been formatted that morning on the camera. Switching to 4K 2:1 made no difference whatsoever - lots and lots and lots of dropped frames. We had to continue the shoot using cards shooting at 2:1 4K instead of 16x9 4K.
Its worth pointing out that the same drive i was using had been used on a shoot two days previous to approx. 70% capacity with no problems. The rental company i was using (who own the RED) rang the RED support team but at this time there still hasn't been a response from them as far as i know. Not a great first experience for me with RED.
Click to expand...

Were you by chance shooting a music video or in a super loud environment? Sound vibrations skip the drives, it's a known issue with a thread somewhere.

But you didn't answer the question. Did you shoot 4K 16x9 and then switch to 2:1 on the same drive? Apparently this will cause problems. Also shooting 16x9 can as well at this moment in time, but that issue is in post.
 
I was shooting 4K 16x9 - thats it.
There were no loud noises/sounds or music anywhere near us. We were shooting in a very controlled, stable building, shooting static shots against a greenscreen.
 
I had dropped frames while shooting a music video. 3k 16:9 48fps to Red drive. The funny thing is that the clips played back alright in camera, but when I brought them into Redcine there they were. A whole bunch of dropped frames. I still haven't tried to transcode these shots to see if it will render the dropped frames as blue and all of the others fine, or if it will crash Redcine or make a corrupted file.
 
If you render them in RC, it simply stops once it reaches the first dropped frame. I believe this can be worked around easiest by editing the proxies and using Crimson.

I'm at a loss for the Dropped frames with no cause...
 
for what its worth...
i tested the same camera with the same drive today and i had dropped frames on redcode 28 as well (and occasionally a codec error).
I reformatted the drive and tried again with Dropped frames at 4k 16x9, 4k 2:1, 3k and 2k, both redcode 28 and 36.
the dropped frames occur at various stages throughout the drive leading me to suspect that its not a mechanical problem with the drive i.e the first time i had dropped frames the drive was 33% full, the second time the dropped frames happened the drive was at 21% full.
shot under the same circumstances. locked off camera, no excessive heat no excessive noise.
given that there is a warning light in the viewfinder/lcd for dropped frames the question must be asked - under what circumstances did the RED team foresee dropped frames occurring and how frequently given that they have included a dropped frame warning light in such a prominent position?
 
I have, by way of contrast, not had any dropped frames which is odd considering I've done some pretty agressive handheld with the drive and done some tyler mount aerials as well - all to the drive. It sounds like something has gone awry with either the drive itself or the connecting cable.
 
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