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Dropped Frames Problem

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Matt Zervos

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Hey guys,

I am having a huge problem with, what I think, is dropped frames. I am working in Final Cut. I shot a music video this past weekend and ended up not getting any sound from the shoot, I know, huge mistake, but everyone was on a tight schedule and we just didn't have time to fool with the problems we were having with audio on the RED, also another problem I need to get fixed. However, now my most urgent problem is this - for example, I line up the video clip on top of the master audio and things are fine until, of course, it runs into a dropped frame somewhere and the whole thing goes out of sync numerous times on down the timeline. This is a huge problem - all simplicity in syncing up the video to the audio is completely thrown out the window. I know what you're going to say...make sure your audio works next time on the RED, but I have to work with what I have. My RED One has never dropped frames before so I've never had this problem. What can I do? Help?
 
what's the framerate? is your timeline full rendered when your doing playback? what are you cutting on ? qt proxies? pro res? qt native? camera project settings, and what media were you shooting on, cards or drive?
 
24 frames. Full Rendered. Cutting on Final Cut 6 using Pro Res files. 4k RAW. I used the drive.
 
And your Poject frame rate settings are the same as your footage?
Have you checked the kHz Settings. Sometimes it can run out of sync because the music is in 44.1 kHz but needs to be 48 kHz for Video (in PAL land, I dont know if that's the same with NTSC)
As long as getting Sound in the camera, you don't need that. You can sync by eye just fine, takes a bit of time of cause. On the other hand if you have recorded sound with the file you can use PLURALEYES to do the sync job for you - and it does t perfect!
 
A few thoughts...

You said your timeline and source footage is 24 fps... are you sure it's not 23.98 fps? There is a big difference when your working with dual system sound. Did you record audio on set to an audio recorder or are you just trying to sync to a provided pre-produced audio file? Since your file seems to drift out of sync over time, this might be the issue.

Second... what is your audio file source format? .wav? .aiff? Convert it into a QT file then import it and work from that... because FCP want to look at frames not samples.

You say dropped frames, do you mean you think the camera dropped frames on record? Did you get any errors to that effect when shooting? Do you see corrupt frames in your footage? Im not positive but when ever i have seen "dropped frames" in camera, they still write a frame, it's just incomplete data.
 
typically if they were dropped frames on the drive, you'd see GREEN on the frames, and or red cine X would not process the files for you. the Khz thing might help. could there be any chance that the performance was simply off and the band or singer just didn't stay in sync in real life? Or is this occuring on ever single clip you are syncing so that level of error couldn't be on their end?
 
That's the thing. With past cameras, I've always scene an incomplete or green frames, never a full video. All the files are ending up out of sync. I will try the audio thing and see how that turns out.
 
I am working with 23.98 in both categories, btw.
 
Ok, I've noticed something. The singers mouth ends up actually being late every time by the end of the song. This has to be another problem. It couldn't be dropped frames. I tried Khz fix. No luck...
 
Did you convert your audio file to a QT?
 
What were they using to playback onset?
 
If it's always at the end it has to be an audio issue.
Sometimes this occurs when using a CD for playback, don't ask me why.
Also, I know it might sound stupis, but it happens, are you sure that you are using the exact same version of the song in the Cut, that you used on set?
Sometimes they make edits in the song and don't tell you.
If nothing works try to find the point where it starts to get visible and adjust all takes a few frames manually. Should work just fine.
 
at this point, I don't think it can be a dropped frame issue, It's human error somewhere in the pipeline, whether with the track or somewhere else. Constantly resyncing manually is a pain, but part of the beast of editing. I've had to do it on many occasions even with all the software that can help me get past it. It happens you just gotta muscle through it. A good technique I use is to sync every thing separately, and split apart the clips. than multiclip the sections and work with all that in a multi clip sequence. a LOT of work in the beginning, allows for a smooth uninterrupted edit later...
 
Kim Frank said:
If it's always at the end it has to be an audio issue.
Sometimes this occurs when using a CD for playback, don't ask me why.
Also, I know it might sound stupis, but it happens, are you sure that you are using the exact same version of the song in the Cut, that you used on set?
Sometimes they make edits in the song and don't tell you.
If nothing works try to find the point where it starts to get visible and adjust all takes a few frames manually. Should work just fine.
Click to expand...

which is what I was kind of hinting at... playback should be from a "crystal synced" source... only pro CD players will do this.

I would first explore converting your source audio into a QT file and see if that helps. You might also try converting the audio track frame rate by pulling-up or down the rate using cinema tools to convert it by 1/100 sec. Ie... 24 fps to 23.98.
 
Kim Frank said:
If it's always at the end it has to be an audio issue.
Sometimes this occurs when using a CD for playback, don't ask me why.
Also, I know it might sound stupis, but it happens, are you sure that you are using the exact same version of the song in the Cut, that you used on set?
Sometimes they make edits in the song and don't tell you.
If nothing works try to find the point where it starts to get visible and adjust all takes a few frames manually. Should work just fine.
Click to expand...

I'm getting close to just manually syncing. It's gonna take a heck of a lot longer to do, but that's editing I guess. Thank you for all your help. I'll let you know if I find anything else out. Who knows, it may be a slightly different song..it would be crazy if so.

I haven't tried to convert to QT yet...I will though. Any specific settings you recommend?
 
Just thought I'd say thanks to all of you who helped me out. I figured out the problem, Apparently, the stereo system we were playing the songs on was playing the songs slower and faster than regular speed. I sped one song up 2% and it went in-sync with the video. I slowed the other song down 0.5% and it worked. Strange, but that's editing I guess. Thanks!
 
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