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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon sensor footage

So they're still working on the sensor to make sure it won't poison and kill you. Makes sense now.

It can't poison or kill you just because you are RED User but it will do it with the competition for sure !!!!!
 
Lizard???? I thought it was a dragon....now were doing lizard upgrades?? LOL JUST KIDDING
 
Where is any Dragon sensor footage? It boggles my mind that not only did they not release any footage before selling the sensor but that people are paying for the upgrade sight-unseen. I'm not saying I think it'll look bad, but come on, who buys a product without looking at it? Supposedly there are several cameras out there now with the new sensor but where is the footage?

Any one with links would be appreciated, my google search turns up nothing but a still of a fake lizard.

Actually, no one is paying. Just staying in line. When the time arrives, one can do the upgrade -and pay- or not.
As far as I recall -let me know if I´m wrong- I´ve never seen footage from a Sony Betacam or Digi Beta, even F900 before the camera was bought... you just payed Sony (or Panasonic, or JVC) , got the camera, and that was it. And no upgrades available: just sell or keep or store the old model, and pay full price for the new one.
I know that long before my turn arrives, footage and comments and criticism (good and bad) will be profusely around.
Guido
 
I don't think those upgrades happening at NAB were anyone's actual cameras. Those were probably Epics with MX sensors that Red had in stock and converted to Dragon for sale later on after the firmware is done. A marketing gimmick that seemed to work as now people think there's Epic Dragons out in the wild.

They said they just got the sensors and ASICs ands still needed to finish the firmware and color science before they'll be usable. I wouldn't expect Red to release footage for several weeks (could be less), and customer upgrades until mid-late summer. Could be sooner or later depending on how things go with the firmware and color science. That is all just my assumption though.

EDIT: Yeah, what Bob said.


Most probably... they had to show something physical.
Guido
 
Where is any Dragon sensor footage? It boggles my mind that not only did they not release any footage before selling the sensor but that people are paying for the upgrade sight-unseen. I'm not saying I think it'll look bad, but come on, who buys a product without looking at it? Supposedly there are several cameras out there now with the new sensor but where is the footage?

Any one with links would be appreciated, my google search turns up nothing but a still of a fake lizard.
I seem to remember a bunch of these same people buying RED ONE sight unseen, I guess their gamble paid off. I understand your frustration, but one thing we need to realize is that RED (still a very unique private company) is unlike any regularly traded public company that answer to economic pressures to increase the bottom line by whatever means necessary, even if profits are already in the billions. That profit chart must go up up up, so after awhile they hold back tech/innovation and make incremental improvements, keeping the bar so low that they can keep releasing underwhelming new products every year which we eat up because we have no other choice. And worse, when companies form consortiums to universally agree to "hold the line" in the name of universal customer "benefit" (think OPEC). I guess my point is they are basing their standards of gaining profits through artificial manipulation and rationing the release of tech, a process we have all come to accept as the norm and has subsequently made us cynical and not trusting most companies. But here is where RED is different than the others, at least to me, it seems clear that RED is making cameras that Mr Jannard wanted himself, based on his standards. Instead of: what can we minimally release to the public this quarter to artificially maximize profits for the longest possible duration, RED says: What's the most BADASS camera current tech can support now? and then let's go beyond that! Without buying a whole new camera! Sorry about the long winded explanation, but the short answer is that we trust RED, and Jim's high standards have yet to disappoint. History has also shown that those who has this tech first, has a head start on the competition, and have reaped the rewards, isn't that reason enough?
 
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Once I was talking to a Red rep and the soon-to-be-released (now released) Sony cameras came up and she said "oh well from what I understand those cameras aren't production ready." Now there's the pot calling the kettle black. Remember when we didn't have playback for the first year of the Epic? Not to mention how buggy the Red One was throughout its life. Red has pushed the boundaries in a lot of great ways but one negative effect they've had is that now all manufacturers are releasing what are essentially beta products in order to rush them out in to the market to try to keep ahead of each other, cameras that don't have their advertised features for a year or more after release. Even Arri is about to pull that card with their new XT line. They're only doing it by one month, but still.

Everyone should take a page from Sound device's book. They have the Pix240, an external recorder that recorded 1.5G single link 4:2:2 signals to ProRes, DNxHD or Uncompressed. A nice little device. Then one fine day they released a firmware update: your 1.5G 4:2:2 recorder is now a 3G single link 4:4:4 recorder for free. You're welcome! They had no buzz about this previously, they just surprised us with it one day. That fact that they did it means they they knew from day one they they were going to do it, but they kept their mouth shut. Convergent design did that too. One day if you paid a few thousand bucks for a license then your 4:4:4 recorder is now a Arri Raw recorder too at less than a tenth of the price of the Codex RAW recorder. No buzz, they just dropped it and we were overjoyed.

All of this playing the buzz game is merely frustrating for the customer and comes across as desperate, looking at you guys, Red, Sony and Canon...
 
Fair enough Adam, I also have the feeling that the buzz game is going to get worse now that the big boys are in the 4k and above game.
 
True that, in fact, It already has...
 
I disagree. I like being able to participate in the "permanent beta" program that is RED. I jump on every beta release as soon as I can and enjoy being able to know how things are proceeding before they are ready to release. That's just me.
 
yes as a matter of i did see loads of footage bearing the alexa name prior to its release; but heh, its your money.....
 
i think all the questions are referring to red themselves, they better have tons of footage... how else could they have green lighted the sensor/upgrade?????????????????
 
Where is any Dragon sensor footage? It boggles my mind that not only did they not release any footage before selling the sensor but that people are paying for the upgrade sight-unseen. I'm not saying I think it'll look bad, but come on, who buys a product without looking at it? Supposedly there are several cameras out there now with the new sensor but where is the footage?

Any one with links would be appreciated, my google search turns up nothing but a still of a fake lizard.

No matter what they or any other camera manufacturer shows us, it's still mostly a matter of trust. Footage from camera makers will never show you where the camera falls dows, the shot it couldn't get, etc. I can show you footage from M that looks as good as MX footage, yet we in no way feel we got ripped off by our MX upgrade. Why? Because what that footage doesn't tell you is how many more lights were used, that shot at dusk we couldn't get with M but can now with MX , etc. that were M issues.

I've also seen really great looking footage from BM cameras of a woman in her early forties. The skin tones looked great, and I thought "maybe we should get one as an extra camera body" Then I realized that woman was an actress I knew, and that she was in fact 32, and looked maybe 28 in real life. The lack of OLPF in that low-rent camera was making her actually very pretty skin look way older than it should - but just looking at the shot, you say "Looks great, looks sharp, what a great camera".

Same with Movi - it can't do a prolonged, simple walk and talk at 50mm, a Steadicam stable, reliably, because it's not a Steadicam replacement, and no one seems to notice this as they watch the spectacular demo of the things it can do. it's annoying because clients sometimes don't do this thinking. Even people who work in this don't seem to do much thinking sometimes, it seems. I saw lots of forum posts from people saying they will be selling their Steadicams and dollies to buy a Movi. They all just say "wow", and then stop thinking.

So all this to say, someone giving you tech measurements, someone who has earned your trust, that's actually worth more than test footage. Seeing is not believing - seeing is merely wondering what you're not being shown, what you don't know, what will bite you in the ass when you actually use the thing on a real set, under circumstances outside what is shown in the demo.

My only concern is how long it will take the software we use to be compatible. When it is, we will jump in immediately. Until then we can't use a camera that has no viable post pipeline yet. I'm sure that won't take long.

To moderators: I have been shooting Red since 2008 - I am not a "Junior member" I am the same Robert Ruffo who joined this forum in 2009, but who got his account deleted by mistake.
 
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