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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON - ITS THE REAL DEAL !!!! - (PART 2)

Hi Mark, Mega off topic but could you please tell me what the handle/evf set up includes on the epic the man is holding in the rainforest, looks good. Pretty cool you got a world champ in thems shots too! Cheers Phil
 
Phil Jagger said:
Hi Mark, Mega off topic but could you please tell me what the handle/evf set up includes on the epic the man is holding in the rainforest, looks good. Pretty cool you got a world champ in thems shots too! Cheers Phil
Click to expand...

Yes we where very lucky to have Mick Fanning dropping in the moment we arrived :)

The handles are all RED.
http://www.red.com/store/products/outrigger-handle

http://www.red.com/store/products/sliding-top-handle

http://www.red.com/store/products/bolt-on-camera-guide-clampn

http://www.red.com/store/products/red-arm
 
Sorry if this sounds silly -

Have you shot anything in 5k? 4k? with the dragon yet - I know...why - when you have beautiful 6k right? I am just curious. With the way this sensor impacts some of our lens choices and we are needing to push a bit if you've explored that. Curious as to see if using a smaller sensor area is still as pleasing - holds sharpness - etc.
 
Dragon Upgrade

Dragon Upgrade

But we are there. Final parts are now being sent off to manufacturing and customer upgrades will begin the first week of September.
Click to expand...

Another 3 weeks to go.....

Harcharan
 
Jim Hoffman said:
Sorry if this sounds silly -

Have you shot anything in 5k? 4k? with the dragon yet - I know...why - when you have beautiful 6k right? I am just curious. With the way this sensor impacts some of our lens choices and we are needing to push a bit if you've explored that. Curious as to see if using a smaller sensor area is still as pleasing - holds sharpness - etc.
Click to expand...

5k looks as good as ever...
4k we shot some 150fps tests with at.. and could not see any difference between 6k,5k and 4k when down scaled to HD.
Of course its softer that 6k... when viewing at 6k.
 
Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot for doing these hi DR tests!
I'll ask you the same question i asked Evin...

What kind of IR filtration did you use with the Dragon?
...and what IR filtration do you normally use with the MX ?

Thanks!

Antoine
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot for doing these hi DR tests!
I'll ask you the same question i asked Evin...

What kind of IR filtration did you use with the Dragon?
...and what IR filtration do you normally use with the MX ?

Thanks!

Antoine
Click to expand...

I don't use any IR filters. Actually I'm a liar, one day a year or two ago we put in a IR filter in place because we needed to kill of 7+ stops of light as the IR poisoning was becoming to much for me to grade out.

It's never really worried me to much be honest... as I try never to filter down to much past 5 stops as the IR problem starts to becomes a real problem.... and for this Dragon test, I made sure not to use any IR filter at all, because I wanted to see in an extreme situation what it would do over the MX. It was better.... and I know it will be even better again when RED get there new IR internal filter installed for the new dragon sensors when released,.
 
Unless RED has changed the way ISO works, the ISO is metadata and will merely shift the midpoint of the Dynamic range up and down the scale of values. Just like on the current MX sensor where shooting at 320 puts middle grey in a place where there are many more stops under key than over key available in the dynamic range and where ISO 1280 or 1600 puts about an even number of stops below and above key. Of course, with more Dynamic range in Dragon, this matters LESS but it would be nice to be clear if this is functioning the same way. So yes, if you shoot at a lower ISO you have the same DR but it is shifted, and at a lower ISO there is more of a chance of clipping as you have fewer stops over key exposure available before clip. This is how the MX works currently and I'm curious if it is the same with Dragon.

For example, If you have a heavily backlit scene with white objects in the frame or are under a jungle canopy looking out onto the ocean, you're going to need all the DR you can get..both over an under. So setting your exposure based on ISO 200 is likely not going to yield good results as you won't have the range in the highlights you would if you set exposure at a higher ISO like 800 or 1000. In a LOT of instances it won't matter because you're not using the full DR of the sensor- for example a front lit or overhead noon sun day exterior- you're mostly exposing for the sun anyway and you don't need the range in the highlights so ISO 200 might be fine. PLUS with Dragon's expanded DR you can shift the midpoint of the DR with the ISO and have less chance of clipping or losing shadow detail. It frees up some options. Maybe this is what people mean when they say "lower ISO with no DR penalty."

But I think it's an important distinction to make so you know what it means to shoot at a lower ISO. Again, it seems like the ISO functions the same way on Dragon as MX based on the current threads. You just have a more elbow room.
 
Eric Haase said:
Unless RED has changed the way ISO works, the ISO is metadata and will merely shift the midpoint of the Dynamic range up and down the scale of values. Just like on the current MX sensor where shooting at 320 puts middle grey in a place where there are many more stops under key than over key available in the dynamic range and where ISO 1280 or 1600 puts about an even number of stops below and above key. Of course, with more Dynamic range in Dragon, this matters LESS but it would be nice to be clear if this is functioning the same way. So yes, if you shoot at a lower ISO you have the same DR but it is shifted, and at a lower ISO there is more of a chance of clipping as you have fewer stops over key exposure available before clip. This is how the MX works currently and I'm curious if it is the same with Dragon.

For example, If you have a heavily backlit scene with white objects in the frame or are under a jungle canopy looking out onto the ocean, you're going to need all the DR you can get..both over an under. So setting your exposure based on ISO 200 is likely not going to yield good results as you won't have the range in the highlights you would if you set exposure at a higher ISO like 800 or 1000. In a LOT of instances it won't matter because you're not using the full DR of the sensor- for example a front lit or overhead noon sun day exterior- you're mostly exposing for the sun anyway and you don't need the range in the highlights so ISO 200 might be fine. PLUS with Dragon's expanded DR you can shift the midpoint of the DR with the ISO and have less chance of clipping or losing shadow detail. It frees up some options. Maybe this is what people mean when they say "lower ISO with no DR penalty."

But I think it's an important distinction to make so you know what it means to shoot at a lower ISO. Again, it seems like the ISO functions the same way on Dragon as MX based on the current threads. You just have a more elbow room.
Click to expand...

You are most certainly correct Sir.

I believe you have nailed it exactly. Well written.
 
Mark Toia said:
I don't use any IR filters. Actually I'm a liar, one day a year or two ago we put in a IR filter in place because we needed to kill of 7+ stops of light as the IR poisoning was becoming to much for me to grade out.

It's never really worried me to much be honest... as I try never to filter down to much past 5 stops as the IR problem starts to becomes a real problem.... and for this Dragon test, I made sure not to use any IR filter at all, because I wanted to see in an extreme situation what it would do over the MX. It was better.... and I know it will be even better again when RED get there new IR internal filter installed for the new dragon sensors when released,.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Mark!
Impressive :)

Antoine
 
Eric Haase said:
PLUS with Dragon's expanded DR you can shift the midpoint of the DR with the ISO and have less chance of clipping or losing shadow detail. It frees up some options. Maybe this is what people mean when they say "lower ISO with no DR penalty."
Click to expand...

Thanks Eric for your detailed post!

Yes you are right, I meant since we have more DR, probably would happen more to have "room",
to use lower isos as required by the amount of light / desired Tstop...

just wanted to have a feedback from Mark on this...a sort of confirmation he he
 
Thanks Mark for your time and diligence in putting the dragon through the fire.

Have you screened any dragon footage on big screen in 4k, maybe Sony or Barco projector 50 ft screen?

Thanks again.
 
Corey_O said:
Thanks Mark for your time and diligence in putting the dragon through the fire.

Have you screened any dragon footage on big screen in 4k, maybe Sony or Barco projector 50 ft screen?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...


Yes I have... :)
Looks as sharp as 5k footage downsized to 4k... but what looks alot better is the depth range.
 
Corey_O said:
I think that I will name my Dragon "Depth Finder"!

Thanks again Mark
Click to expand...

Johnny Depth...

Mark, judging by your photos, I feel like the higher ISOs are actually useable. But since I haven't seen the r3d files, how useable are images at 4000 and 6400 truly? I'm sure it's subjective but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

also I know I didn't see any HDRx shots but did you play with HDRx at all?
 
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