DRAGON ISO sweet spot for open sun (contrasty) exteriors.

[Bill Stengel]

Ahoy!
I'm not (intentionally) starting yet another DRAGON ISO thread. I'm looking to get info on some specific points (one, really), and "ISO" isn't coming back in searches because it's too short.
I'm shooting an industrial job in Louisiana starting tomorrow afternoon and the forecast is looking to be wide-open sun. I've read several posts about how pushing ISO buys you additional stops of DR at the upper end of the tonal range. Where is the tipping point on that? When do you cross the line on sacrificing shadow detail? I'll likely want to open the shadows up a bit in the final grade, so I don't want to wind up with excessive noise.
Phil Holland's ISO step tables are helpful, and Patrick O'Sullivan extolled the virtues of 2000+STHOLPH, but I'm curious to know if anyone's got any hands-on input on this.
Thanks!

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

What I have been doing is topping out my ISO at 800 unless I need more. So 800 for outdoors with proper NDs, and lower ISO with added lighting in dimmer locations when possible.

 

[Matt Ryan]

320 with the amount of DR you have with Dragon works well. I shot this video entirely at 320ISO with Skintone/Highlight OLPF. Straight from camera, only used ND:

 

[Jack Shanahan]

Ive been sadly mistaken by banking on iso 800 for daylight like I did on MX. The histogram was right in the middle and I had a noisy image. 320 is my goal moving forward.

 

[Joseph Coleman]

Yes with the Skin Tone Highlight I always shoot 320 - 500 iso. If I want more then I switch to Low Light OPLF and I'm comfortable up to 2000 and even higher in some cases. The way I look at it, If I'm shooting outdoors (sunny/cloudy) or have a very large light package then its Skin Tone Highlight all the way. If I'm running and gunning. Going inside and outside and just don't have the control over lighting then I throw the Low light olpf on to be safe and give me more play in the shadows.

 

[Mark Toia]

250-320 for me. Just watch you don't clip highlights, but the sun itself will always clip, its the sun, it's suposed to clip

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Depends on the OLPF. I have low light and absolutely love it. 800 outdoors is great. But I generally ETTR.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Maybe everyone in this thread is from Seattle but I can't imagine shooting ISO800 in the Louisiana sun without using f/22 or spending more money on NDs than I currently do on cameras. I still can't figure out why the camera's ideal ISO is so silly high. You're gonna want as low as you can go.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

800 is a standard speed for most cameras these days, a full nd set and polarizer easily can get you to where you want at 800

 

[Jason Osterday]

Looking over this week's footage - I agree on the idea of 320ISO STH and 800 LL. Just wish the OLPF's would ramp up production so that it's easier to pickup the opposing option on the fly.

 

[Aris_Gavriilidis]

I'm new to the RED family. To the best of my knowledge it's a different method of exposing between dragon and the original epic MX....If I remember correctly on the original EPIC if you go below 800 you're sacrificing highlight range. I know DRAGON works very differently, but I would still like to know what's a good range mainly for shooting outdoors in daylight. Between 250-800? Like with anything it will take some experimentation on my part, my DRAGON hasn't shipped yet but I'd like to have a rough idea beforehand anyways

 

[Aria Khosravi]

I'm new to the RED family. To the best of my knowledge it's a different method of exposing between dragon and the original epic MX....If I remember correctly on the original EPIC if you go below 800 you're sacrificing highlight range. I know DRAGON works very differently, but I would still like to know what's a good range mainly for shooting outdoors in daylight. Between 250-800? Like with anything it will take some experimentation on my part, my DRAGON hasn't shipped yet but I'd like to have a rough idea beforehand anyways

Dragon works the same way, the reason people are saying 250, 320, etc. is because the Skin-Tone Highlight OLPF is less sensitive than the MX and Dragon with Low-Light Optimized OLPF. If you rate MX at 800 in daylight, you can rate the Dragon with LLO at 800 or maybe higher in daylight or tungsten. If you're comfortable with that OLPF at 800-1000, the STH is 1-1.3 stops less sensitive, so you will get a similar distribution of highlight/shadow latitude at 320-400 on that OLPF. You can try to rate it at 800 as well, but that will give you very little room in the shadows and noise in the midtones, but many stops of overexposure latitude, arguably more than you would need. Hence why 320 tends to be the sweet spot for that OLPF.

The only difference is Dragon has more range and better highlight roll-off to begin with, so it doesn't look like absolute trash when you rate the ISO lower than the sweet spot, whereas the MX would hard-clip and turn pink. The Dragon still sacrifices highlight range below its native ISO but not as harshly. An Alexa works no differently, people rate it lower and the highlights clip sooner, but it looks pretty enough that you can get away with it. Even film works the same way. You rate your film stock higher or lower based on what kind of light you have in your scene. Actual sensitivity of your film stock doesn't change. Think of STH as ASA 320 film and LLO as ASA 800 film, because the sensitivity does actually change between OLPFs.

 

[Aris_Gavriilidis]

Oh wow, thanks so much for all the info , I didn't know the different OLPFs affected sensitivity in such a way. Now everything makes so much sense, thanks for clarifying everything!

 

[Bill Stengel]

Thanks everyone.
I kept it between 250-800 (STH) as common sense would dictate and have nothing bad to say. Dragon is truly phenomenal. My guess is that you'd jack up the ISO to squeeze out those extra stops of sensitivity in snow or some other high-key/low contrast situation where there aren't too many shadows to give up.

 

[DC Chavez]

Here is something I shot at the Daytona 500 last week with Dragon, STH OLPF and 800 ISO. I am blown away by this sensor... Shoulder was in direct sunlight, and his face in the shadow of his hat. Light process in RCX..